Innovation in Partnerships - An Interview with Jack Ziegler

In this episode, Andrew interviews Jack Ziegler, financial advisor for Northwestern Mutual.  Andrew and Jack discuss how we, as individuals, can improve our relationship with money.  They also chat about how we, as fundraising professionals, can better serve our donors by connecting them with the specialized expertise of financial advisors.  Financial advisors who understand charitable giving have unique skills that can assist donors in making the most impactful donation their finances allow.  

Listen to "121 - Innovation in Partnerships: Jack Ziegler (Northwestern Mutual)" on Spreaker.

Show Notes

Background

Jack grew up in a family of financial experts, and after a short stint in Catholic seminary, he followed in the footsteps of his dad and grandfather and became a financial advisor.  Jack sees his financial advising work as a ministry, and he loves that God allows him to bring peace and wisdom to an area of life that often causes families tremendous stress.

Money Mindset

As Jack explains, finances are generational.  Whether we like it or not, our personal relationship to money was likely formed by our experiences with money growing up.  There is so much anxiety about individual and familial financial management, and Jack spends a lot of time with his clients helping them grow in detachment, generosity, and prudence in their relationship with money.  

Life As A Financial Advisor

In his attempts to guide his clients to a financial life that prioritizes detachment, generosity, and prudence, Jack initiates many hard conversations.  Jack speaks to his clients about their retirement plans, their financial fears, their emergency preparations, and their philanthropic dreams.  As a financial advisor, Jack has the knowledge and tools to help families meet as many of their monetary and security goals as possible.

Philanthropic Giving

Andrew and Jack spend a lot of time discussing the mutually beneficial relationship between donors, nonprofit organizations, and financial advisors.  Jack explains how financial advisors can use their professional knowledge to help donors be creative in how they fulfill their philanthropic goals.  Development professionals often do not know the intricacies of the tax code, investment options, and estate planning, and so they cannot offer donors the information they need to make the best gift for their specific situation.  By partnering with financial advisors, fundraising professionals form connections to specialized knowledge that, more often than not, will allow donors to give more than they realized was possible. 

Lightning Round

1. If you could fundraise for any organization or cause at any time in history, what would it be?
• Regnum Christi and a nonprofit I started years ago called Philly Frassati.  
2. If you could get a donor meeting with anyone living or dead, who would it be?
• Tom Monaghan, founder of Domino’s Pizza:  He is a faithful Catholic, and I love his mission and everything he’s done, including his Catholic philanthropy.  
3. Is there enough money out there for every organization that's doing good work?
• Yes!  To get that money, however, organizations need to define the vision, schedule the visits, share the story AND give the tools!    
4. What is one piece of advice that you would give your past self?
• Your life is in the palm of His hands.  Focus on being your best every day; character is your destiny.         
5. Who are 3 people who have most influenced you professionally?
• Christopher West:  He teaches the Theology of the Body, and he’s an amazing mentor and teacher.  
• My spiritual advisor in Regnum Christi.      
• My father:  He’s a tremendous witness of self-sacrificial love for a family. 
6. What is one fact about you that most people don’t know?
• I’m a cancer survivor.
7. What is a book that you would recommend?
• True Riches by John Cortines and Gregory Baumer

If you would like to connect with Jack and learn more about skills as a financial advisor, find him on LinkedIn.  You can also email him at [email protected].  

Andrew’s Takeaways

What a fun interview!  I definitely enjoy my time with Jack, and I’m excited about all of the wisdom and the possibilities he shared.  Let’s get started with my takeaways!  

My first takeaway is about how so many of us need to change how we relate to money.  Listening to Jack talk about the anxiety that surrounds finances and money was enough to cause me stress just sitting here and listening.  Money is a challenge for us all.  How do we earn it?  How do we save it?  How much do we need?  How do we share it?  There are so many tough, tough questions about money, and in answering them, we have to do a lot of soul-searching.  We assess what our families taught us, intentionally or not, about money growing up?  We have to name our biggest fears around finances, and we have to discern how God calls us to serve Him with our money.  None of these are easy topics, and I’m thankful that Jack has a plan for helping his clients grapple with some of these questions.  The three financial priorities he shares with his clients - detachment, generosity, and prudence - set a great framework for answering questions and aspiring to a healthy relationship with our money.  

My first takeaway focuses on our personal relationships with money, but my second and third takeaways focus on how we can use financial advisors to improve our professional success.  For my second takeaway, I turn to Jack’s wisdom in how we approach donors about their gifts.  He’s right - too often, we go to donors, ask for a specific dollar amount, and we accept whatever answer they give us, whether we like it or not.  Our donor meetings could be much more fruitful if we change the way we start the conversation.  As Jack shares, let’s ask about their hopes and dreams for our ministry, let’s ask about their giving priorities as a whole, let’s try to get a picture of what the donor hopes their philanthropic legacy will be.  Once we have this info, we can better decide how we steer the conversation and how we can make the connections that will lead to the donor’s philanthropic success.  

Finally, my third takeaway is about innovation.  As Jack explains, not many fundraisers or ministries are really taking advantage of the abundance of benefits that could come from inviting a financial advisor into their work.  Let’s be honest - to be successful, sometimes we have to admit that we don’t know everything.  I know that I, as a development professional, have my specific set of skills, but those skills don’t include the intricacies of estate planning or tax codes or charitable fund development.  I know how to tell a story and share a vision, but once I engage a donor and get them excited to be part of my ministry, I have to help them actually make the nuts and bolts of their donation happen.  It is my job to connect them with the experts that will help them give wisely and to their full potential.  In that manner, I challenge you to try to cultivate a partnership like this.  Find a financial advisor who is sympathetic to your mission, and find a way that you can make connections between donors and that advisor.  In creating that connection, your donors will be able to take full advantage of every financial management opportunity that exists.

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

01:28.46

aggierobison

Well howdy everyone and welcome back for another episode of the Petrus Development Show. I'm thrilled that you're with us here today. Today I have Jack Ziegler Financial advisor for northwestern mutual and Jack and I actually know a lot of the same people. Um incidentally but we got connected on Linkedin just because. He was sharing a lot of really great content about financial services ideas um just different concepts that I think you know, kind of struck me and he's got a lot to say about philanthropy and fundraising and just how you can integrate generosity into your life and into your plan and. Anyway, it's just we connected and um, we had great conversations online and now I thought man let's have Jack on the podcast. So Jack I am thrilled that you're with us and excited to talk with you about your journey and just some of these ideas around wealth management and. Ah, financial management and fundraisings.

02:24.21

Jack Ziegler

Yeah, thanks. Andrew, it's so good to be here. It's been awesome connecting online and yeah going back and forth with different ideas and seeing the similarities in our industries and just where they intertwine hoping that they can start to intertwine more and more. That's my goal.

02:39.40

aggierobison

Yeah, yeah for sure. So we usually start these just tell us a little bit about your background. How did you come to be the financial advisor for Northwest mutual?

02:50.42

Jack Ziegler

Yeah, um, so I guess a little roundabout answers I actually thought I was going to be a catholic priest and so I was in the seminary for a short while and God has a funny way of changing things. But um, the short story of that is…

03:07.79

Jack Ziegler

…You know I grew up and my grandfather was in finance, my dad was in finance and you know dinner conversations were like sitting through MBA classes, what we like to say but um, yeah from that just started to see…

03:27.70

Jack Ziegler

…After you know I realized that the Lord wasn't calling me to be a priest, that he was calling me to still serve him and lay my life down for him and others but to use my gifts in the world to sanctify the world by being in the world and so that's where I landed into this. Um. This career where I could work with families and individuals and um and help bring peace to an area where ah, there's usually a lot of stress. It's cause of 50% of divorces in America is money.

04:00.22

aggierobison

No.

04:03.30

Jack Ziegler

And so wanting to bring peace to that area wanting to to be able to shine the light of Christ be somebody that people can trust when maybe they felt gypped in the past. So that's how I got to this place. I had a ah business before this and landscaping and. And knew that's not what I wanted to do but eventually found my way to start here.

04:27.84

aggierobison

So I appreciate you sharing that I want to ask a follow-up question in that. Why do you? Why is it from your experience that money. Obviously the lack of money is going to cause you anxiety for sure. No doubt about that. But what are some of the others?

04:43.17

aggierobison

…Anxieties that people or families or couples or or or groups feel about finances? Um, and how do those conversations kind of manifest with you as a financial advisor?

04:57.22

Jack Ziegler

Yeah, gosh I mean there's so many ways I could answer that question. Um, what I would say is finances are generational whether we like it or not 1 of the first questions I ask everybody that I meet with. Tell me what it was like growing up. What did you learn about money and finances growing up and how has that translated to where you are today and your relationship with money today because I've met people who are making a ton of money and saving no money and experiencing a ton of stress all right I've met people who are saving a ton of money but they…

05:33.94

Jack Ziegler

…can't do anything with it because of this separation anxiety with their money right? that see in any other place other than their bank account stresses them out and it's going to end up making them not able to retire right? so.. There's There's so much that's tied into it and I think it all stems in the in the family in our relationship with money and this is why I spend a lot of time in my clients helping grow in detachment generosity and prudence in our finances because the reality is there's not going to be peace.

06:06.55

Jack Ziegler

…In our finances until we can detach from them. Um, you know I've met people making $1000000 a year who are stressed about money more than the missionary couple that's making $75000 a year. Um, and what it comes down to is that detachment right. Are we able are we placing our security are we placing our piece in something in this world. Um, it's never going to satisfy. There's always going to be something else. There's always going to be something more There's always gonna be somebody who has something more I found generosity as a way to…

06:44.99

Jack Ziegler

…unlock that that detachment to be able to say wow create a new from and a scarcity mindset to an abundance mindset of wow I just gave this away and I'm still okay, we're still okay, um, and and generosity has a funny way of giving back to us 10 fold.

07:04.33

Jack Ziegler

As Christ says a hundredfold. So.

07:08.64

aggierobison

I love those answers and I think that you know it makes me think of my grandfather he passed away I was probably I guess I would have been about 15 and he had ah ah a detached garage that was his shop and you know they lived in the house for fifty plus years and I remember going out there and you know my my grandma was moving and in with us and we were cleaning out this garage and he had boxes boxes of toilet paper and um, you know, ah cleaner spray and just ah he had a boxes of liquor I mean just like all of this stuff. And remember asking my mom like why did pop up have all of this stuff in the garage and she said well he was he grew up in the and the depression and because of that experience when something was on sale you bought and you had money for it. You bought all of it because you didn't know when you'd have a chance to buy that again. You know and so.

08:03.53

aggierobison

Just ah, kind of always stuck with me and you know to your point of this like detachment. Um that that was his experience right? But that was you know because of his relationship with money and with goods growing up that then he carried that sort of attitude through and I could totally see how.

08:22.95

aggierobison

People see their money in the same way and not just you know families. But I mean you know we work with a lot of Catholic priests and we work with a lot of you know, executive directors and when you start talking about institutional funds And. Ah, you know reserve is good but you know at what point are you like hey we've got all this Money. We're not doing anything with it.

08:39.40

Jack Ziegler

Exactly? Yeah, so that's usually where we start and generosity tends to unlock that for a lot of people. It's what did it for me when I had a lot of stress about money I remember my spiritual director saying to me.

08:58.54

Jack Ziegler

Um, Jack why don't you give it away and I said what do you mean? I just told you I'm stressed about this that's not going to make anything any better. How could that possibly make something better. But I'm so grateful I took that advice because when I did that when I gave away what was…

09:15.58

Jack Ziegler

…What was causing me stress, my anxiety um and really surrendered it to the Lord in a tangible way by gifting it. Um I Saw this Burden fall off of my shoulders. Um, recognizing you know. Who is going to take care of me as the Lord, not myself, not my business and yeah and Unlocked. Ah a whole new level for me of meaning around. You know what is money for.. It's not as our industry is built up to do. It's not to store up barns and when those barns are full tear them down and build bigger Barns. Um, and what I'm sure we'll get into that later but that's what I'm trying to change in what I'm doing for clients that the rest of the industry is still doing.

10:09.35

aggierobison

That's great. So as you mentioned earlier, you start most of your engagements with new clients just based just asking kind of you know, tell me about your family tell about growing up What are some other ways that you engage in potentially stressful conversations with some of your clients?

10:26.49

Jack Ziegler

Yeah, great Question. So Um I can't back away from the hard conversations because if I back away from those hard conversations then they'll never be had so. As as a financial advisor right? It's like the architect of a building backing away from the conversations about laying a strong foundation right? Nobody wants to talk about that. They want to talk about how many bathrooms are going to be. You know how much natural light there is going to be how big is it.

10:59.39

Jack Ziegler

Kitchen Countertop etc nobody wants to know about the foundations of the building. You know you don't look at there's no pictures of that on zillow um, that's our job to really make sure that we're checking those and we're having those hard conversations right? What's your plan if god forbid you were to pass away. Before retirement, you know what's your plan if god forbid something were to happen, you were sick or injured and out of work. What's your plan if you were laid off for 3 4 five months? um we have to have those conversations because if we don't nobody will right. And and we have to be able to have those conversations with clients to be able to make sure that if anything did happen I can say and look them in the eyes and say everything is going to be okay, you know, um, so that's some of the hard conversations that we have to have others are along the lines of.

11:55.28

Jack Ziegler

You know we're building retirement projection or we're building a projection towards a house school or whatever it may be to just be able to be realistic for people and say hey based on what you're doing right now and where you're at this is what it gets you and this is what you want This is the gap. Right? and I can teach you how to bridge that gap. But at the end of the day. It's going to come down to you and and and making those hard decisions right? So every day I have to have those hard, if I'm not having hard conversations I'm not doing my job.

12:20.20

aggierobison

Right.

12:27.99

aggierobison

Right? Yeah, so you ah you mentioned earlier. Um about this idea of donors. Ah you, you're advising your clients on right detachment, generosity and prudence right? and those 3 kind of go together. Um.

12:40.44

Jack Ziegler

Tackle one one.

12:44.82

aggierobison

How do the conversations about I can see how detachment and generosity go together and you know having those hard conversations about building a Foundation. How do they? How do you see and have you seen any? Do you have any examples you could share without using names or anything like that of situations where. Those conversations started out with some of those hard conversations. Ah maybe about detachment about Foundation building or about doing that and then they led into more fruitful conversations about generosity and about maximizing impact.

13:13.58

Jack Ziegler

Yes, absolutely Absolutely Once we great question once we can build that foundation and that's the prudence side of it right? It's doing the right things. It's not giving all of our money away and now our family is starving.

13:31.28

aggierobison

Right.

13:33.20

Jack Ziegler

Right? That's not prudent. Um, that might be generous, that might be detached but that's not prudent. So the 3 really have to work together in order to create a unity right? and they feed each other. It's a dynamism right? like faith, hope and love. Um, so I guess an example of that you know I've had clients. That we want to talk about retirement. They want to be generous. They're doing well and they are being generous already in their life. They have some concerns about retirement right? that have maybe not been resolved yet and I'll be talk to them and say okay, what are your main concerns about retirement. You know, maybe they'll say oh you know. I'm worried that if I live to a hundred I'll run out of money right? or I'm worried that if I or my husband have a long-term care incident. You know we'll run out of money and I have to have reserves for that. I'm worried that you know about inflation. I'm worried about taxes. I'm worried about you name it right? Healthcare costs. Those are really the 6 main or legacy and those are the 6 main things that people are worried about when it comes to retirement once we build a plan and we show them hey here's how we're taking care of long-term care hey here's how we're taking care of for sessions here's how we're making sure you never run out of money. There's tools to be able to. Be very very clear that you know this is you're taking care of here once we build that out. It's very easy to then say hey we still have more we can either and this is where that decision comes or are we gonna tear down this barn and build bigger barns right.

15:09.90

Jack Ziegler

Or are we going to find a way to help you be more generous. So my goal is to then say hey we're taking care of all of these things here's the excess what kind of impact. Do you want to have what kind of legacy. Do you want to have and what causes come to mind. Um that you want to have that impact for. It could be your family It could be. You know the trip you go to could be a ah nonprofit you go to from there. We just start to build out and and show them how to do that and there's lots of ways to do that qualified charitable distributions in retirement. There's. Charitable remainder trust charitable weed trust there's split dollar life insurance contracts. There's charitable gift annuities right? All of these are taking care of 1 of those risks that I mentioned while simultaneously having a huge impact on the cause you care about.

16:06.49

Jack Ziegler

Um, so I think that answers your question part of again how prudence comes into that is you know you may be making a major gift you may have people making major gifts and being generous and detached I would love to see those people add a little bit inject a little bit more prudence in that and say hey is this gift.

16:24.63

Jack Ziegler

Where's this gift coming from because if we choose a different place Maybe where this gift is coming from all of a sudden right? Your giving ability increases substantially and because you're saving so much more in tax or.

16:41.36

Jack Ziegler

You're simultaneously taking care of a retirement risk. Um, that gives you all the more confidence to say Wow I actually can make a way more meaningful gift. Um, so I know I touched on a lot of different things there. Yeah.

16:56.15

aggierobison

Yeah, you you talked a lot about you talked about the kind of the fears of you know when people when you're talking with them and they say oh want to be charitable but I'm afraid of this but you know these those 6 things and um I don't know if you've ever read 4 hour work week I think that's where he said it maybe on his podcast but Tim Ferriss

17:12.79

aggierobison

It has this exercise and I'm sure he didn't come up with it right? but it was basically where he verbalizes the worst case scenario and you know he's trying to make a decision. That's you know, do I go this way or do I go that way and um, he said that you know what you do is you.

17:30.91

aggierobison

You Literally you just say all right if I choose this path here's the worst way that it could turn out right? like um, you know I Ah you know you know you sort of play that out to the point where you know I lose my job. You know we can't pay our Mortgage. We get kicked out of our home. We have to, you know, go living with my In-laws. Ah, you know my in-laws hate me so then they kick me out. You know it's like you just sort of keep making this worse and worse and eventually what he says that is that most of the time you realize that all of those fears that you know in in you're kind of in the back of your mind they they're really scary but when you bring them out to the forefront.

18:09.37

aggierobison

They're actually they're not you know the realistic possibility of them happening is not there and so it's just a matter of verbalizing and vocalizing those fears. It's almost kind of to some extent and you know you want to, you want to take some action in some of those ways but it's about like kind of removing those fears and those concerns.

18:28.81

aggierobison

So they can say yeah, that's not going to happen like what are the chances that I'm going to live to 120 which is when I say that I'll run out of money in my retirement fund like you know as you know are we really in a world where that's going to happen right now and so it's like you know, just sort of helping them understand that this is the reality and this is how you can can be. You can live and do.

18:48.58

aggierobison

What you desire within that reality.

18:49.19

Jack Ziegler

Yeah, absolutely and it's. It's even taken a step forward in that not only are we verbalizing our fears right? We're seeing the solutions that take them away. We're putting them on paper tangibly.

18:56.78

aggierobison

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

19:06.00

Jack Ziegler

Right in front of us taking action to solve them. Um and we're being held accountable to them by a third party by a trusted partner right? So it's taken even that much further to say man I've really got to try hard to believe that this isn't going to work anymore.

19:25.89

Jack Ziegler

Um, and yeah I've seen that sort of light bulb switch for some clients to then say Wow like now I can create that donor advised fund for my in my mom's name for this organization that I cared about and she cared about. Now I can create a perpetual gift through a private foundation that continues and my kids can be a part of and they can contribute to and our family legacy can continue for far longer than I Can you start to connect what you really want.

20:02.18

Jack Ziegler

With your balance sheet with your budget right? connect your values to your goals and then the steps to get there.

20:10.84

aggierobison

You mentioned earlier how you do work with development directors or fundraisers and then certainly you know, advising um donors. But then you kind of said you know I'd love to see some of those some of those ways play out in a little bit more sort of you know tactical ways.

20:27.79

aggierobison

What are some ways that you have seen that relationship between you know yourself as the financial planner the donor and the charity or you know the representative um work well?

20:40.31

Jack Ziegler

Yeah, so I don't know if you know money from industry or okay, well they're awesome. Take a look at them I think they're doing this really well and we're looking to partner with them. But ah what I would say is everybody whenever I talk to somebody a development.

20:57.24

Jack Ziegler

Um, officer President Whatever um that the first solution is oh can you do a webinar. You do a webinar for us like the problem is lack of knowledge. Um, webinars are great.

Yeah. Me.

21:14.43

Jack Ziegler

But they're not. They're not the main solution here. They're not what's going to drive sustainable change here or really make this happen consistently. Um, because people don't give because they learn about a tax break they give because they're inspired they give because of the relationship.

21:24.73

aggierobison

Right.

21:31.82

Jack Ziegler

And these organizations have that relationship but they don't have the knowledge so there is this disconnect what I'm recommending to people to to start to do is I want to do a webinar for development professionals so that they can know just enough to ask the right questions that spark a third -party conversation

21:51.15

Jack Ziegler

Right? to be able to ask the question you know, answer the question. This is what fundraisers dealing with all the time they are trying to get out of the cash bucket and into the asset bucket because 99% of wealth is held in assets not Cash. One percent of wealth is held in Cash. So We got to get out of that cash Bucket. We're asking in the 1%. We're gonna get a 1% gift If we're asking in the 99%. We're gonna get a 99% gift The other question that that donors are getting getting is right I wish I could give more but I wish I could give more but and I think that's.

22:14.43

aggierobison

Oh.

22:30.54

Jack Ziegler

Everyone can resonate with that of hearing that often and donors can resonate with feeling that ah answer to that question is what if I could show you a way that um that you could you could do both right? What if I could show you? um. Some creative ways that other donors have made gifts of assets right? and and all of a sudden they're thinking outside of that now they're looking instead of the 50000 they have in the bank now they're looking at you know the 1000000 that they have in their 4 okay. Say no maybe I do could make a $10000 gift from that million but to make a $10000 gift from the 50000? no way so it changes the whole game but you need to be able to ask the 1 question to set up the next meeting with a third party.

23:24.76

Jack Ziegler

Bring in the expert with you. You have the relationship, they have the expertise to say hey what are your concerns. What are the buts that are keeping you from being able to have the impact you want to have to leave the luggage and you want to have yeah.

23:37.92

aggierobison

Going back to that difficult conversation piece. That's a hard question for a fundraiser to ask right? like it's so easy to know when you ask for? you know? Mr or Mrs Donor would you prayerfully consider $100000 to support this campaign or you know support our annual fund and they say yeah I don't I don't. I don't think so I love to but I don't think that we can like it's it's you know the sort of the the natural inclination right is to say okay I get it. Yeah I understand right times are tough and you sort of make up you just you insert their reason and that's a really tough question though to ask and say.

24:16.58

aggierobison

Okay, what? what would your concerns be and um, if we could if I could show you away or if we could talk you know, talk this through and find a way is that something. You'd be open to.

24:25.46

Jack Ziegler

Yeah, and the way I see it though is that that comes before the ask. How are you framing an ask right? framing the ask as hey can you and give us a $10000 check

24:29.59

aggierobison

Yeah, yeah, yeah, great point.

24:40.56

Jack Ziegler

No way. Can you then go from back pedal from there to to then getting to the balance sheet right? Um, but if you're asking Mr or Mrs Donor um where does this organization stand in terms of your giving priorities. Mr. And Mrs Donor

24:43.28

aggierobison

Right? yeah.

24:58.94

Jack Ziegler

What do you want your legacy to be with this organization? Mr or Mrs Donor where do you see this organization in 5 years? How do you see your role in that right now all of the sudden they're on the team right? and they want to make this happen just as badly as you do.

25:17.95

Jack Ziegler

If they care about your work, which if they're their donor. They probably do now you're now you're able to ask more questions before you're making the $100000 ask you're able to say hey Mr. Miss donor. We've worked. I know it's tough times I know that. You know inflation is is up right now I know that the market is is at crazy places. Interest rates are high. You work. Whatever would it be? Okay, if I came back and showed you some creative solutions of how people are taking advantage of high interest rates right now and they're giving um would it be okay if I showed you how people are taking. Um, advantage of the tax code to be able to save taxes today for if they plan on leaving behind in their will. Yeah, all the sudden. It's a totally different conversation right? You just open to a door to a whole new world of possibilities. The donor didn't even think was possible.

26:01.27

aggierobison

All right? yeah.

26:09.47

Jack Ziegler

Right? That's what I would say is it has to come before the ask if it's too late after the ask to then back pedal and say let's open up your balance sheet and see what we can do here. You know.

26:17.78

aggierobison

Yeah, had a I think that those those questions are really fantastic and I love that um I had a donor years ago who um, really wanted to make it $1000000 commitment to the organization that was the kind of the number that.

26:33.89

aggierobison

You know there was a lot of reasons right on that but but was honest and saying I Just don't know how we can but I really want to and so what we did was we put together a strategy where it allowed them to give some some current some out of the cash bucket and then they actually set up a um.

26:53.29

aggierobison

Ah, ah must have been a whole life policy that the owner was the nonprofit or the beneficiary was a nonprofit and they paid the premiums and you know I think that you know they put it on their wife and ah because the premiums were lower and you know it was like $9000 a year.

27:12.24

aggierobison

And you know when they pass it will be a million dollars to the organization and they were thrilled about it and then you know then we were able to.

27:17.87

Jack Ziegler

It's amazing and they get off that $9000 in this given tax year

27:26.11

aggierobison

Ah, talk about how the organization had received a million dollar gift and that actually led to other conversations with other individuals and it was just like this whole sort of chain effect but it was to your point understanding what their desires were and what they wanted to see as their legacy.

27:44.42

aggierobison

Before putting a number on the table to ask them.

27:45.36

Jack Ziegler

Right? right? If we could, it would be a win if we could convince one development person to stop Asking. Can you consider us in your will and to start asking where do you see or what do you want your legacy to be with its organization. When you see can you think of us in your will Yes, that might result in some gifts from the will but whatever you're getting from that will it could have been substantially larger if you asked that other question and your your donor would have felt way more empowered way more on board and way more excited. About it with.

28:22.89

aggierobison

Ah, yeah I think that that's that that's great and and part of the concern I think from the dont or from the development director standpoint is I don't know how to answer those questions when I asked that come back to me right? like I can focus on the fundraising piece.

28:38.60

aggierobison

But I don't. I'm scared of what those questions would be so how would you advise them in that situation? I don't want to ask the questions because I don't want to get the questions back.

28:39.37

Jack Ziegler

Right? I'm so glad you asked that? Yeah I'm so glad you asked that and honesty is the best way to approach here. You don't need to know the answers to these questions. You shouldn't know the answers to these questions is not your job.

28:55.22

aggierobison

I.

28:58.52

Jack Ziegler

You're wearing enough hats as it is This is not your your job what you need to be able to say to the answer that is hey listen that's not my expertise I'd love to set up a consultation with our specialist to be able to help you do that? Would you be open to to setting up that call where we could come with some creative solutions.

29:17.84

aggierobison

Yeah, right.

29:17.92

Jack Ziegler

You just need to memorize that sentence. You don't need to know how a donor advise fund works. You need to know how I mean it might be helpful to know some of you know little things here and there of what the effect of it is all all I know Mr. Mrs Donor is that people end up saving taxes and feel way more empowered.

29:36.51

Jack Ziegler

All I know Mr. mrs donor is people realize they can give way more than they ever thought they could. All I know Mr. for mrs donor is right? That's you see what I'm saying is the end result not how it works people. You know they don't care how tylenol works, they just are happy. It takes away their headache. You just need to know what the result is.

29:53.12

aggierobison

Yeah, and I think that to your point earlier. It's about sort of developing you know over time you know it's kind of like stories right? like over 18 years I have some core stories that I tell all the time but I'm always coming up with new stories just because right like you're in new situations and as if. As a development officer I had stories about other other donors that I had worked with or that other people had worked with that I would use to illustrate a point to you know serve as an example to inspire somebody to warn somebody and to your point earlier like the more you do this. The more you say you know actually I I worked with a couple just like you last year. It was a really fantastic situation right? like they were really pleased and they were able to leave a you know make a huge difference in the organization. I'd love to connect you with the same person. Same expert that worked with them or you know whatever the situation is right.

30:50.40

Jack Ziegler

Yes, exactly And what what I found is a lot of small midsize nonprofits don't have the capability of having their own in-house planned giving department which is part of the issue here is there like even if I So who do I set up that consultation with how do I even.

31:09.76

Jack Ziegler

Now I'm just trapping myself. How could I ever do that? Um, this is where I need to see more collaboration with the financial services world and the nonprofit space because um, unfortunately a lot of advisors are not talking to their clients about it until their clients are asking for it.

31:29.30

Jack Ziegler

Um, and you know they don't necessarily have all the one advisors who are doing this kind of work and specializing in it don't necessarily have the relationships with your donors so to be able to to have a partner. Right? And this is what I'm working with with money from Ministry is to be able to partner with these mid to small size nonprofits and say hey we can set up these consultations. Um, once you have that concern you can be at the meeting. You don't have to be at the meeting. Whatever the donor's most comfortable with and we'll work with them in this capacity alone.

32:06.94

Jack Ziegler

Because I would fight the objection of or saying talk to your financial advisor about this because I would love to say that financial advisors know everything there is to know about all of this but the reality is 9 and every 10 don't don't do any of this so to be able to say hey.

32:24.82

Jack Ziegler

Know you probably have existing relationships with a lot of your finances. That's great. Would it be okay if we introduce you to a specialist in this and this alone work with you right? because that's the other concern that starts to pop up.

32:30.71

aggierobison

Yeah, yeah, because the donors you know? they've built a relationship with their financial advisor over time right? That's the way that relationship works and so.

32:47.53

aggierobison

What you're suggesting and I think that's really fantastic What you're suggesting is not I have a I have a financial advisor that's better than the guy or the gal that you've been working with because that's not going to build any trust and win any but but I have a specialist that that deals specifically in this would it be all right? if we had a conversation with them.

32:53.37

Jack Ziegler

No, no, no.

33:04.81

Jack Ziegler

Um, absolutely.

33:07.60

aggierobison

You know, no risk to your financial advisor right? keep working with them. This is just somebody who has some idea specific to this topic.

33:10.39

Jack Ziegler

You know, yeah, not looking to replace any relationships just looking to help service you in this capacity with the people who do it? best.

33:20.98

aggierobison

Yeah I think that's really great and Jack this has been great I want to ask just 2 more questions before we go to our lightning rounds that sound good.

33:28.71

Jack Ziegler

Yeah, please.

33:40.88

aggierobison

The first one is what are what are some of the challenges in this work. What is it that kind of you know your brings you pause or makes you it gives you any sort of concern that you're trying to work through and find solutions for?

33:57.30

Jack Ziegler

In the charitable giving space with financial planning. Yeah yeah, that's ah, what gets me um the biggest challenge I think.

34:13.92

Jack Ziegler

Is that nobody's doing this. That's the biggest challenge. So there's not a ton of oh look at what they're doing really well already. Let's just copy them.

34:31.54

Jack Ziegler

It's much more, hey this is the reality is donors. Want to have an impact nonprofits want their donors to have that impact Advisors are not paying attention to charitable giving.

34:50.29

Jack Ziegler

At all but they have the knowledge that is going to unlock the donor's desire to give and turn it into an actual gift and ah in a lot of ways right? or increase that unlock like new levels of that new heights of that.

35:02.85

aggierobison

Um, yeah.

35:09.24

Jack Ziegler

So This is newer. There are groups that are starting to do it. But it's all pretty new in a more formalized capacity of partnering with these groups. So That's what I'd say is the biggest challenge of it is that nobody's figured out how to do it exactly right yet? um. So We're really just trying to take massive strides in that.

35:30.26

aggierobison

Um, and then what do you love most about the work? What gets you up every morning to do it?

35:35.27

Jack Ziegler

The impact. Um like I said in the beginning of this conversation whether we like it or not finances are generational. Their impact is generational and what we do. Will impact our kids and our kids' kids. What we do will impact our organizations not just while we're alive but much longer than that. Um, and so to recognize and to live you know I'm not I'm not trying to live this life for this life I'm trying to live for heaven.

36:08.76

Jack Ziegler

And I want to help people store up true riches in eternity and that's what gets me up I Love being able to see people reach new heights of Generosity I Love being able to see people take that sigh of Relief. Um. Knowing their concerns are going to be taken care of and watching people cross the finish line of those goals.

36:37.54

aggierobison

That's awesome. Yeah well Jack I certainly do appreciate I think that that my big takeaway is just some of the very practical language and the very practical questions that our listeners can um that they can use in their conversations and in their interactions with the donors and I think that. You know it's like you said as the financial that I always go back to this interview I had with deacon Charlie Echeverry and he was talking about a different topic entirely but it was. There's not going to be on a on large enough scale. There's not going to be a strategy developed until it makes sense for all the parties involved right.

37:11.81

Jack Ziegler

Right.

37:14.22

aggierobison

And what it sounds like to you is that people in the financial planning people in the wealth management sphere are starting to notice that this makes sense for them to be involved in these conversations and I think that as that sort of you know needle continues to move towards.

37:33.28

aggierobison

Everybody benefits from these conversations and these engagements. We'll see more work like this being done and more resources available which is really exciting.

37:40.31

Jack Ziegler

Yeah, if you want more impact here the pro bono guy on your board is not the place to do it if you want consistent impact here. It's got it like you said all 3 parties and there's a way to do it where everybody is very.

37:58.64

Jack Ziegler

Satisfied right? Very happy. No so all it's good.

38:00.72

aggierobison

Yeah, that's great. Well Jack what do you say? we jump over to our lightning round now all right cool all right question number 1 of our lightning round if you could fundraise for any organization or cause any point in history, what would it be?

38:15.19

Jack Ziegler

Um, I'm part of Regnum Christi which is a movement in the Catholic Church and and so dear to my heart. So definitely Regnum Christi and then nonprofit I started two years ago Philly Frasati really love what we're doing there to help young people grow in the faith.

38:31.60

aggierobison

That's awesome, Fantastic And what what are the links for those organizations.

38:35.34

Jack Ziegler

Yeah, um, regnumchristi.org and phillyfrassati.org are places where you can give to those Philly so Philly Frassati actually it's gonna be on Patreon so https://www.patreon.com/phillyfrassati

38:47.64

aggierobison

Awesome! great and we'll put that in the show notes question number 2 if you could get a donor meeting with anyone in the world living or dead who would it be with?

38:57.74

Jack Ziegler

Um, ah probably ah Tom Monaghan the owner of Dominoes. Yeah, and started Ave Maria University or funded a lot of that. Just love his mission and everything he’s done. I think it would just be such an interesting conversation and very exciting.

39:18.25

aggierobison

Yep, that's awesome question number 3 is there enough money out there for every organization that's doing good work?

39:23.64

Jack Ziegler

I say yes. Define The vision, schedule the visits, share the story and then give the tools and yes.

39:36.54

aggierobison

That's awesome. There's always a yes, there is but you have to do the work right? Both on the nonprofit side and then on the funders fundraising side. Yeah question number 4 if you could go back in time and offer yourself one piece of advice. What would it be?

39:49.53

Jack Ziegler

I would say and this is something I'm still telling myself right now your life is in the palm of His hands just focus on being the best version of yourself each day, not the outcomes because your character is your destiny.

40:08.60

aggierobison

That's huge, yeah I love that. Thanks so much question number 5 who are 3 people who have most influenced your professional development?

40:15.79

Jack Ziegler

I would say Christopher West He's teaches theology of the body of theology and body institute. He's been amazing mentor and teacher almost like a rabbi to me and then my spiritual director in Regnum Christi and my dad John Ziggler Junior on the third it's had a huge impact on me seeing his witness of what self-sacrificial love is for a family.

40:47.62

aggierobison

Yeah, super cool. I love those answers.  Question number 6 what is something interesting about you that people may not know?

40:57.34

Jack Ziegler

Um, I'm a cancer survivor and yeah, really exciting. Just yeah, it became cancer free several weeks after getting married to my new bride emily.

41:12.24

aggierobison

That's awesome. What was that journey like um sort of finding out because you found out in the midst of your engagement right? yeah.

41:20.40

Jack Ziegler

Yeah, ah that is a long story and you always it was ah some and now I can say it was amazing Now I can say it was amazing. It gave me a whole new.

41:35.86

Jack Ziegler

that sounds cliche and gives me a whole new perspective on life right? Give me the opportunity to to pray and I'll just say this to be able to pray with 1 question that I now I know will be my last question right? because I was at fear of that. Um, which is.

41:55.25

Jack Ziegler

You know, father in heaven, if this cancer took me would you be proud of me? Would you be proud of the way I live my life and to hear him say back to me yes and not because of what you've done but because of who you are as my son and not cancer. Not sin, not anything can take that away from you. Living with that now has been amazing.

42:20.16

aggierobison

Really powerful I can't imagine it doesn't but how has that experience informed your work ah in a professional way. Yeah.

42:28.91

Jack Ziegler

That turned my shift you know when it when I look at the industry being one that helps you build up our build up barns and when those are filled tear them down and build bigger barns that made me break out of that's and say no no, there's got to be another way and and want it. Dive deep into this charitable giving Space. So. It's the reason we're talking right now.

42:52.44

aggierobison

Well very powerful. Thanks for sharing that and question number 7 what is 1 book you think everyone should read?

42:59.48

Jack Ziegler

Just to stay on theme I'll say True Riches by John Cortines, he's a evangelical guy that the forward is done by Kirk Cousins the the quarterback and NFL player. Yeah.

43:14.92

aggierobison

Ah, yeah, that's awesome. I have not heard of it so I'll put it on my list. Great well Jack this has been fantastic. I really appreciate you taking the time and sharing with us and I think that there's.

43:16.80

Jack Ziegler

Really good book. Yeah, you'll love it. It.

43:31.88

aggierobison

Just a lot of really solid takeaways for our listeners if people want to get a hold of you or learn more about the work you're doing where can they track you down? Yeah.

43:38.56

Jack Ziegler

Um, yeah I would say the best place is Linkedin. I post five days a week on Linkedin just different content for the journey right? Whether it be practical advice. Um and tips or. You know, less tangible things that just help us shift our mindset and help us focus on the first things and keep the first things first so that would be a great place and then ah otherwise right, you can direct messaging there or send me an email at Jack.Ziglar my name @ n m dot com.

44:12.78

aggierobison

Awesome and we'll put all that in the show notes and like I said I started off the saying that we connected on Linkedin and I am a big fan of the kind of the story that you're telling on on Linkedin just to the people who are in ah both the financial sector and in the fundraising sector how they're there's there's. Opportunities if we can come together in some more tangible ways and I think that you're doing great work. There. So. Thanks. That's right, good. Well thank you Jack and thank you to everybody listening. I hope that you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did.

44:36.24

Jack Ziegler

Change. Yeah, we're we're bridging the gap.

44:47.95

aggierobison

If you have any questions you can holler at me at [email protected] otherwise we will pray for you and your work and god bless you God bless your work and we'll see you next time. Great.