The Push for Creative Action - An Interview with Evan Woolsoncroft
In this episode, Andrew chats with Evan Woolsoncroft, vice president of philanthropy for Heroic Media. Andrew invites Evan to share about his work at Heroic Media, and the two discuss the need for proactiveness, innovation, and smart modeling in ministry.
Show Notes
Background
Evan began his career in fundraising rather unintentionally. He became a FOCUS missionary, and as part of his missionary work, he had to raise his own support salary. In doing so, he found out he enjoyed fundraising, and he was really pretty good at it. Evan liked being able to share FOCUS’s vision and tell stories of his ministry. He soon began helping to train other FOCUS missionaries in fundraising, and he later worked on the development team in FOCUS’s national office.
Moving to Heroic Media
While fundraising for FOCUS, Evan got a call from a contact at Heroic Media, and he was offered a chance at the only development position for the ministry. Though Evan was enjoying his work with FOCUS, he decided to make the move, and he took over Heroic Media’s fundraising efforts.
Evan shares that Heroic Media’s core mission is to be the most effective and efficient pro-life ministry working to end abortion, and he emphasizes that Heroic Media is always looking for strategies to share metrics of success with donors. For most of the past decade Heroic Media has used Google ads to interact with women searching for abortion resources and to redirect them to pro-life pregnancy help centers.
Innovative Pro-Life Ministry
Andrew and Evan spend a long time talking about the need for innovation in ministry, and Evan describes the ways that Heroic Media has chosen to be proactive in its approach to pro-life ministry. Evan highlights Heroic Media’s partnership with a flourishing pro-life women’s health center from Missouri called ThriVe Express. ThriVe successfully markets itself to the young women who may find themselves seeking an abortion. ThriVe knows its audience and connects with them where they are, using language and stories that draws people in. Heroic Media hopes to work with ThriVe Express to expand access to telehealth services to cities around the country.
Fundraising Successes
Andrew asks Evan to share his biggest fundraising successes, and Evan refers back to what he once thought was one of his biggest challenges - donor overlap between FOCUS and Heroic Media. With both FOCUS and Heroic Media, Evan spent a lot of time courting Catholic donors in Texas, and he wanted to make sure he remained ethical in not taking donors from one organization to serve another. He’s learned, however, that a lot of his donors continue to support FOCUS while also giving to Heroic Media. Evan was sufficiently successful in engaging donors with FOCUS’s mission in that they continued to support FOCUS once Evan left. Evan shares how he sees that continuity as a true mark of successful fundraiser. The real win is when donors continue to support an organization even when the development professional who drew them into the organization moves on.
Lightning Round
- If you could fundraise for any organization or cause at any time in history, what would it be?
- It would be fascinating to fundraise for the early church when Christianity was just starting to spread. I envision Paul going from city to city, getting people on fire, and I would love to support that.
- If you could get a donor meeting with anyone living or dead, who would it be?
- Elon Musk: He’s not necessarily pro-life, but as the father of 10 kids and someone who is concerned about the declining birthrate, it would be an interesting meeting.
- Is there enough money out there for every organization that's doing good work?
- Yes, I think there is. Look at the prosperity in the United States. It’s all about having the right cause and a good case for support.
- What is one piece of advice that you would give your past self?
- Be patient with yourself. You don’t always need to act immediately. It’s okay to take time to pause and think and ask people for advice before taking action.
- Who are 3 people who have most influenced you professionally?
- Fr. Elijah Thompson: He was one of my first FOCUS teammates, and he really helped me personally and professionally.
- Josh Whelan: I met Josh at FOCUS, and he taught me a lot. When I questioned my career path, he took me under his wing, and I learned lots from him.
- Brett Attebery: He’s the current CEO of Heroic Media, and he taught me a lot about growing in virtue and about being a leader.
- What is one fact about you that most people don’t know?
- I was in a 4H Club growing up, and I really excelled at parliamentary procedure. I am a Robert’s Rules of Order expert.
- What is a book that you would recommend?
- The Lord of the Rings Trilogy. It’s a timeless classic.
If you would like to connect with Evan, send him an email at [email protected].
Andrew’s Takeaways
First, I’m very impressed by the emphasis that Heroic Media places on metrics of success. Evan shared that Heroic Media strives to be the most efficient and effective pro-life ministry. In order to know if they’re on their way to meeting that goal or not, Heroic Media has to know if they’re using their money effectively. I love how Evan emphasized Heroic Media’s desire to give hard numbers and statistics to donors about the return on the donors’ investment in Heroic Media’s ministry. We, as development professionals, can’t forget that a passion for a ministry and its mission can only get us so far with donors. A donor may love what a ministry is doing, but unless that ministry is able to clearly share that they’re using donations to grow and serve successfully, that donor is unlikely to remain a committed, long-term donor. Metrics, ROI, and statistics gathered will look different for each organization. Heroic Media is able to share numbers of ads clicked and appointments made, but your ministry might have different metrics. You might share about an increase in campus ministry students coming for daily mass or for bible studies. Or, you might share about the numbers of people fed or clothed by your outreach committee. Whatever it is that you’re doing, try to find concrete ways to show donors your successes and, more specifically, how their donation contributed to your success.
My second takeaway, like my first, isn’t necessarily anything exceptionally new and different, but it is something that we need to hear often as a reminder. Too often, we tend to be reactive by nature. We respond to problems and concerns as they come up, but all told, we tend to continue doing what we’ve always done. Evan reminds us all of the need to be proactive in all parts of our ministry - in programing and in fundraising - and he shares ways that Heroic Media tries to do that. I loved hearing about Heroic Media’s partnership with ThriVe Express, and I’m so excited to see how their adventures into telehealth come together. As a caveat, Evan reminds us that being proactive doesn’t necessarily mean doing something completely original and rebuilding everything from the ground up. Sometimes, like in Evan’s case, it might simply be finding new partners and working with them to grow their successes. Heroic Media’s proactiveness wasn’t about recreating the wheel of pro-life ministry. Instead, for them, it was about finding someone who is doing pro-life ministry really well and finding a way to use their resources in support. Proactivity can absolutely include both small and large decisions.
Finally, my third takeaway is about communication in ministry. Again, I return to Evan’s description of Heroic Media’s relationship with ThriVe Express. I really appreciated how he emphasized the clinic’s ability to meet its potential new patients where they’re at. Evan shared about the clinic’s branding and how they use what I called “tik tok friendly language” to reach out to women who might be struggling with an unplanned pregnancy. I might have chuckled over my description of their communication, but in all seriousness, it’s brilliant, and it’s exactly what we need to do as fundraising professionals. The way that we speak to a donor who is a recent college graduate is going to be very different from the way we speak to our retired donors. These two ages of donors may both love our ministry so much, but if we’re smart, we will engage with them differently, both in words and in methods of communication. Our recent grad might get her news from Instagram or LinkedIn or whatever social media platform is most popular with young twentysomethings. Our retired couple, on the other hand, might not even be on social media, but they are more likely to pick up their phone when we call to chat. Being successful in fundraising is all about knowing your audience, understanding what’s important to them, and choosing appropriate communication channels. Long story short, be creative in how you communicate.
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
01:49.95
aggierobison
Well howdy to everyone and welcome to another show of the Petrus Development Show. I am thrilled that you're with us here today. Today I am speaking with Evan Woolsoncroft, vice president of philanthropy at heroic media. Evan is another fellow Texan which all right thinking people should be fellow Texans so I'm especially excited to talk with Evan and we're gonna. Dive into his background in ministry as a missionary in fundraising the work that they're doing at Heroic Media and whatever else we can find to talk about fundraising related. So Evan, I am thrilled that you're with us here today. Thanks.
02:36.81
Evan Woolsoncroft
Thanks for having me Andrew. It's ah great to be here and love this podcast.
02:39.76
aggierobison
Great cool, all right? Well you know how these start. Tell us a little bit about your background. How did you come to be the vice president of philanthropy at Heroic media?
02:50.46
Evan Woolsoncroft
Well, it started on a dark and stormy night 1989 when I was born in a small town in Kansas not this kid I hope you are hope you don't mind a 4 hour interview um
02:57.22
aggierobison
Let's go way back. But.
03:04.97
Evan Woolsoncroft
Um, really my fundraising journey started as a FOCUS missionary so fundraising for my own mission budget and salary doing my own fundraising and so that's my first real foray into any kind of fundraising and I really liked it because the people I was going and meeting with my support team. And never heard of FOCUS before and so I was really like showing them a brand new mission. This was the first time they'd ever heard of FOCUS and I was going and ask them for support and it was really fun. I really enjoyed being able to cast vision and then report back to people and. Build these relationships and and take them even deeper so I was reaching out to people that were you know a past teacher that I hadn't talked to in a few years but I thought give it a shot so that's where I started and then after and I did pretty well on on my own support raising and then I was asked to help teach and train. The missionaries do fundraising and so as I in my second year as a missionary I was asked to help train the about 400 missionaries how to do fundraising for themselves and that was I know just another level going a little bit deeper.
04:10.75
aggierobison
Um, wow.
04:17.29
Evan Woolsoncroft
Love that part too. I loved being able to teach other people. How to do something I really enjoyed and and then you know I'd been on a missionary on campus for 3 years helping to train other people and and gotten married at this time as well and my wife and I were at missouri state university. And spring from Missouri and really wanting to move back closer here to her parents in the Dallas Fort worth area and I was kind of looking for jobs inside of focus outside of focus didn't really know exactly what that next step was going to be for me and an opportunity opened up to join the FOCUS national…
04:56.40
Evan Woolsoncroft
…development fundraising team and is a major gift fundraiser and that whole first year on staff there in that position I was fundraising in Florida from taxes so I went to Florida 2 to 3 times a month this one year into marriage. No kids and.
05:08.64
aggierobison
Wow.
05:14.95
Evan Woolsoncroft
And know just it was like it was awesome. It was a great learning experience for me but man it was tough. It was really challenging to do that much traveling and then my counterpart who was here in Texas left FOCUS to go to grad school and so then they asked if I want to take over the Texas region and I said please oh.
05:34.90
Evan Woolsoncroft
I was announced with FOCUS about gosh almost nine years mostly in the major gifts side in my in my last year there I was working more on some of the annual giving stuff the philanthropy engagement team they had developed and working with alumni specifically wasn't really looking to leave FOCUS. I loved it. There had a great. Experience and been there a long time but ah, this other organization. Heroic media gave me a call and said that their former vice president of philanthropy was moving on to do consulting work and he called me and asked if I'd be interested and I'd heard about heroic media. Maybe ah 5 years before that and got to know them as an organization and as a donor myself and never thought I would have the opportunity to work there because they're a small organization. There's one full time fundraiser. So it was a great opportunity for me to move over there and be able to like flex some of the muscles I had built up.
06:33.59
Evan Woolsoncroft
And really kind of start to ah you know take these skills that I learned in all the years previously and start to implement them in a new way as I'm you know we're looking to to grow here at Heroic Media and so it was ah that's kind of how I ended up in in the position I'm in now.
06:50.18
aggierobison
That's awesome. That's a great story and you know you never know I hear so many times people you know say I wasn't looking to leave but you know this opportunity came up and you know that's really just a testament to right? You do good work and people notice it and you build relationships you network and.
07:05.39
aggierobison
Sometimes there's a lot of fruit that comes from those relationships and you know here you are now in a great position doing great work for an organization that you love right.
07:16.42
Evan Woolsoncroft
Yeah, it's exactly right? Yeah, it's ah when you look back on it. You know hindsight being Twenty Twenty you really see the Lord at work in a lot of ways which is really cool.
07:22.58
aggierobison
Yeah, so tell our listeners so I should just say this our very first interview ever for the Petrus Development Show episode one is with Mike Perkins and at the time Mike was executive director of Heroic Media mike has moved on to another role now but he learned he taught us that he. Informed us a little bit about what heroic media was doing at the time. But why don't you give us a 2022 what is heroic media and what are you guys trying to accomplish.
07:51.84
Evan Woolsoncroft
Awesome! Thanks so here at heroic media we've been around since 2004 our missions kind of looked a little bit different here and there but the core of it is really being the most effective and most efficient pro-life organization. We can't be and so what we're doing is we're really looking to try and look for strategies or tactics that we can give a really good return on investment back to our benefactors and we know that there's a lot of things that you can do. But what's the best thing you can do and so for the last about eight years or so. We've been doing a system we call it. Oasis. It's an acronym that stands for on-demand alternatives to abortion systems and really what it is if you boil it down is we run Google ads to interact with women searching for an abortion and we redirect them to a pro-life pregnancy help center.
08:50.10
Evan Woolsoncroft
And that's been very successful. It's very awesome because we can track it. We track all the metrics. How many clicks and all the way down to ultimately, if the baby was saved at the end of the day and we target it specifically at abortion minded women. We've been doing that for a long time and just kind of looking at things like what's the next iteration or what's that next. Level of that and one of the great testing grounds for us was when Texas here passed the heartbeat bill a little over a year ago and we were able to kind of watch those trends and see you know if any impact was going to happen. What was that impact and essentially what we found was.
09:27.81
Evan Woolsoncroft
The women searching for abortion didn't change at all that there's still a need even if you make it illegal or you put a lot of restrictions. They're still going to be looking for an abortion and and then they're going to find it in a surrounding state in New Mexico in Oklahoma or Mexico I had recently heard that the Denver planned parenthood had.
09:47.65
Evan Woolsoncroft
Increased their Texas residence seeking an abortion there by 500% after the heartbeat bill so we know that that's not going to be that the legislation alone isn't the answer. There's got to be a cultural part of this element if we're going to change the country to, you know, favor life.
10:05.96
Evan Woolsoncroft
And be life affirming and so through our research and all of our work we came across a pro-life pregnancy help center that was really unlike any other one that we'd ever seen before and this was in St Louis Missouri called thrive express women's health care what they did is they implemented a ah really. Ah, solid business strategy on branding that beat out the planned parenthood there in St Louis for the number one go to women's healthcare center for women in that whole city. So if you take a poll anywhere in the country right now. 9 out of 10 women know of planned parenthood. One out of 10 women know any kind of pro-life previously help center you know like you and I. We probably are aware of this because you know being someone that's you know pro-life and cares about this issue. The people listening to this podcast might even be aware of that. But…
11:02.97
Evan Woolsoncroft
…People seeking abortions. They're not aware that there are alternatives to abortions. Let's put it that way. Um, planned parent has won a cultural battle significantly. So this Thrive Express Woman's health care. Did they deployed a branding campaign using Billboard Radio Internet Social media.
11:06.50
aggierobison
Right.
11:22.70
Evan Woolsoncroft
Youtube and they started to brand themselves as a women's healthcare just women's healthcare care. They don't use the word pregnant. They don't use any kind of those buzzwords and they noticed that they were really trending. They use ads that resonate deeply with young women.
11:43.12
Evan Woolsoncroft
About you know, using the language that they use that doesn't resonate with me I don't use it but you know yes Queen and no one your status and I had to Google what that meant but um, but they they exactly exactly trying to.
11:53.53
aggierobison
Your Tiktok friendly language is what you're saying.
11:59.69
Evan Woolsoncroft
To relate to this young generation. That's gonna be seeking abortions and so now we have we're working with them in partnership with them to expand this model nationwide and so what's really cool is that they've converted it to a telehealth model so we don't have to.
12:18.36
Evan Woolsoncroft
You know, drop in a brick and mortar location and that's going to. You know, be 10 times more costly. We can implement a telehealth branding campaign overnight. So it's already been expanded to 2 cities and we'll be expanding to several more here in the upcoming months which. Really exciting because then like you know the only the only limiting factor then is funds generated which puts you know more pressure and more more to me right? which I'm okay, totally i' totally fine with that. But ah, it really just know limiting factors is finding people that want to…
12:56.70
Evan Woolsoncroft
…Take out planned parenthood with a proven plan. That's already done this in one city and replicate it in a hundred more cities.
13:03.20
aggierobison
Yeah I think I mean you're making a point that I think is an important one to kind of circle back to right is that too Often. You know we could pick on the pro-life you know community or pro-life mission because that's what you know your world is but like we can apply this, you know across the spectrum in. Ah, the church and Ministry and I mean heck even the nonprofit community that it there is a lag in this mentality of we do things the way that we've always done them because that's what we've always done and we don't know any different versus how.
13:39.95
aggierobison
How can we learn what is most necessary in our culture or in our work and then be innovative and and and get to that point I'm sure that you know, um, that most pro-life set. You know the knights of Columbus um, nation national. Nationwide have been. They've had a very popular program where they will buy and donate ultrasound machines to ah pro-life pregnancy centers and the reality is that it's because most pro-life pregnancy centers are you know, an office with a very kindly old lady.
14:16.63
aggierobison
Sitting there and saying you know? Yeah I can talk to you about it. But I can't do anything else and just the you know act of putting in ah, an ultrasound machine. You know it has tremendous impact. So Anyways, I'm kind of going down. You know, elaborating right? But to your point like finding models of. Organizations that are doing the work that you're doing in an innovative and ah, an effective way is something that sometimes we struggle with in a nonprofit community but it's encouraging to hear that that's what you guys are trying to get ahead of the trend or at least catch up to where it is.
14:49.87
Evan Woolsoncroft
Yeah I think it's something that I've seen and in nonprofit space. It's not everywhere. But I've seen it there. I've seen it in the pro-life space but it's more about being reactive than proactive and where we really are putting a lot of our emphasis is being proactive.
14:56.73
aggierobison
Right.
15:09.65
Evan Woolsoncroft
The reason we're doing the branding model is because we won't we want women to know about pro-life resources before they ever get pregnant before they're ever even when but when they're young when they're looking at you know, just how do ah they maintain a healthy lifestyle That's where we want to be able to. Ah.
15:29.16
Evan Woolsoncroft
Start to Brand build brand awareness with them and so yeah I think there's something to be said about being proactive and being with you know with the times not necessarily of the times but staying up to date on best practices business strategies. Whatever there's a lot to be learned from outside the nonprofit community that we can learn from.
15:30.22
aggierobison
Yeah.
15:49.50
Evan Woolsoncroft
You know the for-profit and sales marketing team. All those things that we can take some of those and and implement them in our work.
15:56.37
aggierobison
Yeah I know just speaking from your personal story. Our second who is now 7 is adopted and when we wanted to when we started pursuing adoption. Um, we ended up finding a it was a secular adoption agency. Um, we wanted to use some catholic resources and just weren't any available in our town that could service. Um, but there what they did was they were even kind of ahead of the times because they had a website, imagine that right? like oh wow ah, all right? but ah, but the first thing we had to do as ah you know.
16:24.62
Evan Woolsoncroft
Um, crazy.
16:31.14
aggierobison
Prospective adoptive parents was make a brochure about us. You know four page and they gave us a template and they worked through all that and what they had been doing for decades was anytime somebody would go into one of their offices. They would have a stack of these you know here's all your kind of potential families and. Um, what this agency was doing is they basically created a print version and then a digital version and so all the young lady needed to do was to go on the website and now to your point. How do they get to that website right? And that's what you could do. But once they got on the website then they could just search and so actually that we were. We know. Matching with 3 girls. Um, who the first 2 didn't didn't pan out but the third did but they called us directly right? They saw our information on the website they liked and wanted to continue to start a conversation and then they reached out to us and um, you know it was just like. They were cutting edge at that time because they had a website where they had our profiles right on there. It took out that barrier of you know these girls that some they just don't want to go into talk to anybody right? They just want to go online and do it and now I'm sure it's even more you know that was seven years ago now it's even more with every you know every young young woman every young girl having not just access the internet. But.
17:47.70
aggierobison
You know, ah a smartphone that they can look these stuff up on their phone.
17:51.90
Evan Woolsoncroft
Yeah, and I mean it comes down to meeting people where they're at and young women who are you know the age for considering abortions. They're on their phone whether we like that or not That's what they are. So ah, you know as far as we're concerns. Not whether we like that.
18:08.70
Evan Woolsoncroft
We're going to go there Anyways, we're going to meet them where they're at in their communities on their phones and engage with them there and be proactive.
18:18.68
aggierobison
Yeah, um, so let's talk a little bit about fundraising. You said that you know your job is to raise funds for this mission of Heroic media as it is now as it you know is evolving and you know could be down the road who knows um. What are some of your strategies for fundraising that you have found to be most effective in your work at Heroic media.
18:38.12
Evan Woolsoncroft
I think that based on what I've learned in the last almost two years now being with heroic media is just a reinforcement of what I've always known. It's about story. It's about connecting people with mission and there are a lot of pro-life causes to donate to. And there's a lot of great ones too and so it's never a competition of don't give to them give to us. What I'm trying to communicate with donors or potential donors is that we are doing things differently. We're just not. You know we're not just doing what worked you know.
19:02.28
aggierobison
Right.
19:16.84
Evan Woolsoncroft
Twenty years ago we're trying to reinvent ourselves all the time and so being able to really tell that story in a compelling way. Um I think it is really one of the tactics that I've had to learn even more so the last couple years is being a good storyteller because. Um, lot I'm meeting with they're already pro-life I don't have to convince them of that. I don't have to convince them of that issue. They're looking for something that is a winning strategy. They're looking to win and you know we're looking to stack a win on top of a win you know with Roe V Wade being overturned in in June we're looking to now like okay that's 1 win. That's.
19:54.48
Evan Woolsoncroft
That's not the finish line. That's the beginning of the end but let's find another thing that we can stack on top of that and so kind of building this story. All together has been one of the best strategies for me because they know a lot about pro-life and so they need to see something. They.
20:12.31
aggierobison
Yeah, what have been? What have been some of your biggest wins in fundraising either at Heroic media or at your time at FOCUS that you kind of sustain you right? when it is challenging. You can go back to these and say well.
20:29.69
aggierobison
I remember that that was a win that's going to keep me going.
20:35.60
Evan Woolsoncroft
That's a great question. I think my first inclination is to be like oh here's how you know the largest gifts I've closed and kind of talk about how you know the big impact those have made and that that's true. Um I don't know if this is necessarily the answer. Ah. Answers the question but I think one of the biggest wins I've experienced in my professional career was making the transition from FOCUS to heroic media. There was a lot of donor overlap. So a lot of the people that I met in FOCUS fundraising in Texas also give to heroic media who's…
21:10.78
Evan Woolsoncroft
… headquartered in Texas and so 1 making sure that you know there's you know, being ethical about not you know, taking donors and like that but just still having that communication of you know, seeing if they still support FOCUS and talking about that and being open about that and one of the things I found is is.
21:12.35
aggierobison
Um.
21:30.11
Evan Woolsoncroft
I think almost all if I think everyone I've talked to still supports FOCUS and the reason that's a win for me is because it helps me know that I helped these benefactors connect with the mission of FOCUS and not the person of Evan Woolsoncroft and I would have really I know it might have been like you know great for my pride. But horrible. Um for me. Overall if I would have you know if I would have taken all that donor dollars with me and everything because they're still supporting both organizations. So I think that that's probably 1 of the biggest wins and when I look back on the last several years is knowing that I really am effective at communicating and not building people up on me but building them up on the mission if that makes sense.
22:11.38
aggierobison
Oh yeah, no, it makes 100% sense and I think that um you know there is a mantra in fundraising right? people give to people which is completely true, right? The act of people giving especially on the major gift side there has to be a there has to be trust.
22:28.14
aggierobison
And the organization and that trust is generally built with an individual right? or with multiple individuals So that's a very true statement people give to people but to your point that is that shouldn't be where that relationship stops right? The relationship should be with.
22:45.98
aggierobison
Between the people. But then also with the mission of the organization and if the people change meaning you leave. They're still bought into the work. They've been cultivated. They've been stewarded and they know that their gifts are making a difference in that mission.
23:00.56
Evan Woolsoncroft
Yeah, that's something that I learned being a FOCUS missionary before I ever did full time fundraising was you know one of the some people call it a perk. Some people don't but you get reassigned a lot. You know as a missionary and being able to communicate with the students you're working with right now that…
23:18.75
Evan Woolsoncroft
…Might leave at the end of this school year. But if you drop out of bible study and you don't go to mass anymore like I failed as a missionary I failed because I built you up to be a disciple of Evan not a disciple of Jesus and so that mindset just carried over into fundraising as well. And. And I think that sometimes that is a challenge. Do you know, kind of like I don't know, check yourself to make sure that you know that it is about the mission and so it's been good to to be able to reflect back on that and see that as a win.
23:52.18
aggierobison
That's awesome. Um, so I want to shift a little bit. I know that you completed your Mba through University Of Mary which had a component of catholic fundraising tell us a little bit about that program kind of what that meant for you and.
24:07.43
aggierobison
Um, you know if other people are kind of thinking about advanced degrees or continuing education is something that you'd recommend.
24:12.00
Evan Woolsoncroft
Oh man, 100 % totally I never when I graduated undergrad I swore off school I'm never going back I'll never do it again and then I heard about this MBA and Catholic Philanthropy and I was just like man. If I was going to go back to any kind of school. It would only be for this and so prayed about it and it was a good It was good timing wise we you know our kids were still little is you know going to require quite a bit of time outside of work to accomplish this but man it was so worth it. I didn't really have a business background in my undergrad I was psychology pre med and so this whole world of business language and all this stuff was still foreign I mean I'd picked up a lot of it talking with benefactors here and air and and just being a part of you know teams but getting the the MBA.
25:07.62
Evan Woolsoncroft
Side alone was really valuable but then the courses they do specifically on catholic philanthropy man, those were really awesome I learned a lot. It was great to get together with a cohort of like minded individuals and talk about some of these things and not necessarily. You know, just. Take the tests and write the papers but have this community of people you could gather around to bounce ideas off of and talk about you know? Ah so many great conversations and I loved all of it. Loved every minute of it if anyone was considering it. It was awesome. I there's I seriously don't think I can think of 1 thing I didn't like about it. It was convenient when I did it. It was all online and so I could do it from Texas. You know we did a little one week up there which was great. Beautiful campus. But yeah.
25:58.87
aggierobison
That's awesome. I completed a master's in philanthropy at St Mary's University in winnona minnesota many years ago when I was early in my career and the same experience we did more in person so it was three weeks in person in Minnesota which honestly it…
26:16.23
aggierobison
…I love Texas but it's not a bad thing to get three weeks in Minnesota in the middle of the summer right? like ah yeah, ah, but I did three weeks and um I learned I tell you all the time I learned as much if not more from my classmates. Um as I did from my instructorss and from my material and.
26:21.60
Evan Woolsoncroft
Um, amen.
26:35.00
aggierobison
That community I mean there's still people in my cohort back in. You know we finished in 2008, there's still people that I connect with and keep up with and that I you know, follow their career. You know they follow mine and that's been a really great thing for me and now that. I've just completed my second year teaching in the University Of Mary MBA program and so yeah, they about two years ago they changed some of the instructors and so Peter de Keratry became program director. He teaches of course Cory Howat teaches a course and then I teach a course and.
27:09.80
aggierobison
It's ah it's almost like kind of going right back into my time in grad school. You know where right like I. I'm the one responsible for preparing the material and you know setting the exam schedule and stuff like that. But you know I engage in the conversations. The discussions just as much as everybody else and there's you know? um. It's been really encouraging and really fun to just go back and kind of immerse myself in that world again of higher education.
27:34.82
Evan Woolsoncroft
Yeah, that's awesome. My wife she's a teacher so she loves school but there was like for me, it's I love that but I don't love school for school sake I Love it because it was material and content that I love and appreciate. So.
27:49.20
aggierobison
Yeah, yeah, my wife is not a teacher but she loves school and that is not something that she and I share in common. We have something in common but I do like to learn but most of my learning I…
28:05.59
aggierobison
…Is either the school of hard knocks or books and podcasts and ah Youtube videos classes. Ok, but you know I'm with you? Yeah cool. Um, last couple of questions before we go to our lightning round. Um, what do you wish? I imagine that being you know heroic media.
28:11.96
Evan Woolsoncroft
Um, yeah I'm right there with you? yeah.
28:25.44
aggierobison
Um, the cause you know is pro-life. You probably have people from all across the spectrum right? faith based Catholic secular right? Yeah older generations you know, middle age younger generations. What is it that? Um, what is it that you wish and you get to experience the.
28:29.32
Evan Woolsoncroft
Movement.
28:45.10
aggierobison
You know the the philanthropy that they're doing the generosity that they're implementing in their life through their giving if you could take kind of what you understand what you have learned about philanthropy and generosity that you've experienced across the spectrum and sort of shout that out to the rest of the world to hear. What would you? What would some of those lessons. Be.
29:04.18
Evan Woolsoncroft
Some of my favorite visits I've ever had are these people and it doesn't matter what their net worth is because I've found that at every level but these people who have this really great understanding of that their money is really god's money and they're here to just redistribute it. And like and they don't they're just saying the words that they know think are the right words to say they embody this is like part of who they are and they're they're not. You know they're generous because God has been generous to them and it's very apparent in meeting with them and so that's just. 1 of the things that always just sends a shiver down my spine when people start talking like that because it's just so powerful and moving that they really understand they have this good grasp on money. They have this good grasp on wealth and they're not really tied to it and bogged down with it and they're just wanting to be generous with it. Um, and so I think that there's. Um, sometimes like a mindset of like you know, like like you know, give 10% and and that's it you stop there and then you know which is fine like please everybody you know tithe. But there's certain people that are just me and they just like they're like you know what? you know I like what you're doing. We've already given x amount of way this year but we're gonna. Give you a gift anyways and so there's just something I don't know this really moving about that mindset that I've found powerful.
30:28.87
aggierobison
There's a book called The Soul of Money by Lynne Twist are you familiar with that. So Sarah Rose member of the Petrus team. She talks about this all the time and she loves she's a big advocate for it. But it is the sort of the premises is that we all have a relationship with money kind of like what you're talking about.
30:46.47
aggierobison
And in you know, virtually every case it's informed by our youth and by our early experiences with money and you know some people use money as a tool to ah you know, keep control over other people right? and that's because that's how they experience money some people use.
31:05.48
aggierobison
Ah, see money as you know, not not something that should be hoarded but should be given away and so I love I Just love kind of so many lessons within this book. Um the soul of money Exactly what you're talking about once you understand your relationship with money then you can make the decision of. How is that informing my decisions and how can I use my money in a way that is more in line with the sort of my mission in life and not simply based on the experience of how I experienced money when I was younger.
31:39.89
Evan Woolsoncroft
Yeah, oh man, that's that's awesome I'll check that book out because that's just right in Line. What I've experienced. And yeah those people that view money you can tell you view money differently. You can just tell by the way that they carry themselves and what's important to them that um. They have a good relationship with it.
31:55.21
aggierobison
Last question before we dive into our lightning round. What do you love most about this work? What gets you up every morning ready to take on another day.
32:06.40
Evan Woolsoncroft
Great question for me. The thing that gets me up that I love the most is really like opening people's eyes to the fact that we can actually win in pro-life because I think that there's a little bit of you know defeat ism.
32:25.49
Evan Woolsoncroft
And like don't get me wrong roe vs wade overturn biggest victory and in 50 years for pro-life. But I think that even still, it's like what is next? how do we actually? How do we actually know the actual strategy for ending abortion and not just ending abortion but like converting hearts and souls and minds.
32:44.65
Evan Woolsoncroft
And so for me the thing that makes me so passionate and 1 of the reasons I came to heroic media in the first place was just because this was such a unique organization that is really focused on winning you know like and you know the score is 90 to 10 right now and. Can we get it to just be fifty five forty five and the que you know start starting small ways to flip it and I think that that's what I love the most is that this is a winning strategy that's been proven that we're now taking nationwide and so that's what I love the most is connecting people with that and like watching these people who've. Given generously to pro-life causes for a long time and watching them get excited for something that they haven't encountered before is really awesome.
33:34.23
aggierobison
That's awesome. Well I certainly do appreciate the work that you do and the work that heroic media does and I you know, appreciate you coming on and sharing some of your thoughts and insights and experience and I definitely do wish you all the best and will continue to pray for your work and the work of. All of those people that are you're serving and that are being affected by the work that you do cool all right, you ready for some lightning round questions all right gety up all right question number 1 of lightning round if you could fundraise for any organization or cause at any point in history. What would it be?
33:54.38
Evan Woolsoncroft
Now. Thank you Andrew Let's do it.
34:09.21
Evan Woolsoncroft
Man obviously love where I'm at now. So like I feel like that's like the go to answer. But if I could like any time in history man it would have been awesome to like I know fundraising looks totally different like in history and antiquity you know passed like one hundred and fifty years ago
34:27.29
Evan Woolsoncroft
But we've been awesome to to fundraise like the early church as like christianity is starting to spread and like you know Paul is going from like city to city just being able to get people on fire and and support that you know like that buy him a new boat every time he wrecks his shipwrecks. So um. That'll be fun I would enjoy that.
34:45.80
aggierobison
Yeah, super cool. Love it question number 2 if you could get a donor meeting with anyone in the world living or dead who would it be with?
34:54.38
Evan Woolsoncroft
um um I think that it'll be really interesting to get a meeting with Elon Musk just because I think it would be an interesting meeting. I don't think he's pro-life necessarily but he has 10 kids and he is pretty open about. Ah, the issues of ah the birth rate declining and how that's a huge issue and so I'll just love to like I don't know get asked him more questions and and dig into them and he probably would never end up supporting but I feel like it would just be a very interesting meeting and ah entertaining if nothing else. Um, so yeah, right? I don't know for that to be fun.
35:33.53
aggierobison
That's awesome. Yeah I think you have a shot right? like so if anybody out there knows Elon Musk and can hook Evan up please do that's true. Yeah, answer right? Question number 3 is there enough money out there for every organization that's doing good work?
35:36.88
Evan Woolsoncroft
Yeah, he's only like 3 hours away he's in Austin I think right? Yeah I mean come on.
35:48.79
Evan Woolsoncroft
Yeah I mean I definitely think so I think that when you look at just the prosperity of the United States of America It's very obvious there's enough money. It's just about having the right cause and being able to have a good case for support, but I definitely think there's enough generosity out there. For everyone to be totally funded and yeah, yeah, I'll take 1% of that just that's all that's all.
36:12.40
aggierobison
Yeah I mean what did Elon Musk spend to buy Twitter $55000000000 like ah question number 4 if you could go back in time and offer yourself one piece of advice. What would it be?
36:26.69
Evan Woolsoncroft
I Think I'd say be patient with yourself I think that ah just knowing my temperament and I'm very action orient and I like to get things done and and sometimes don't I have a tendency of not like thinking through things I just say to like act I like hey it's better to be doing something than nothing. So I think that. 1 of the piece of advice that would be really helpful for me is like it's okay to to pause. It's okay to be patient and and think through things and and discuss it with other people and before you have to act so that probably the the most thing that would save me the most ah the most pain early on.
36:57.97
aggierobison
Yeah I definitely adopt some of that ready fire aim mentality. Sometimes you know I like what are we waiting? What are we sitting around here waiting for guys? Let's do this and my wife is very good at it. We balance each other that way because she would plan for you know.
37:16.27
aggierobison
For weeks for to figure out where we're going to go for dinner and I'm like what do you mean? What have we do? let's just goes so between the 2 of us we we've gotten a lot better at our decision making process as a family.
37:24.22
Evan Woolsoncroft
Yes, that advice isn't just for me Professionally that's advice for me like across the board. Totally.
37:31.54
aggierobison
Ah, hey you got good question number 5 who are 3 people who have most influenced your professional development?
37:38.43
Evan Woolsoncroft
Think the first person was my first focus teammate now father Elijah Thompson man he was just he was um, discipled me and really helped me and in you know in a personal way but that affected my professional life as well. Just. Help build a strong foundation for me and helping form me as a person. Um Josh Whelan was ah someone that I worked with at focus who is now at petrus but man like Josh really he really taught me a lot and I owe a lot of my. Any kind of success to him because there was a time where I was like man is this even the right career path for me and and Josh just kind of took me under his wing as like an apprentice and I just learned by observing and talking and so you had a huge impact and then um Brett Attebery the current president and CEO of Heroic media. Um, he's really great and helped me a lot of ways professionally growing in virtue and just as a leader on how to lead a team of people taught me a lot.
38:46.25
aggierobison
That's awesome. Yep and ah Josh Whelan was interviewed on the podcast and pulling up the episode.
39:08.33
aggierobison
Yep, and Josh Whelan who you mentioned as vice president Petrus was interviewed on the podcast episode 62 so you can go back and listen to my conversation with Josh and this what how he has helped to inspire many many people not just Evan so very.
39:20.99
Evan Woolsoncroft
But don't tell them that I don't want I don't want to focus email anymore than yeah yeah, yeah.
39:25.50
aggierobison
I never would ah I never would yeah no, that would be silly question number 6 What is something interesting about you that most people don't know?
39:38.55
Evan Woolsoncroft
That's hard because I learned lately that I'm an open book and I'm not really embarrassed by anything like some people will say things and like I'll I'll say things and other people be like that would I would never say that and I'm like I don't know it's hard for me to get embarrass. No, it's not like an open invitation to try to embarrass me. That's not what that is oh Misunderstand I'm saying um, man something that's really interesting like when I was growing up I was involved in a club a community called 4H and in there I really excelled at this parliamentary procedure which is like. Ah, a totally dead form of running a meeting now. No one really knows about Robert's rules or anything like that. Um, but if something I really liked and was really good at is knowing how to like run a meeting according to a rubric and how to like you know like I'm sure people have heard like. Is there a motion and is there a second and I it's been moved and seconded. So ah I just really know something that was really strange. It's antiquated. Totally antiquated. But I've still retained a lot of that information. So if you're ever in a meeting with me and need help to know, guide that meeting along I know all the rules.
40:48.27
aggierobison
That's awesome. Um, so now we've learned that you want to go back and fundraise for Paul and run all your meetings by roberts rules right? So thanks.
40:54.37
Evan Woolsoncroft
Exactly Yeah and I'll see why these two things can't be together. You know, just like I'll be great at all the councils. You know, like ned perfect.
41:05.55
aggierobison
Ah, clearly yeah, cool question number 7 what is 1 book you think everybody should read?
41:12.87
Evan Woolsoncroft
Oh man is this like open ended? Is it a fundraising book or does it man I'm very partial to the lord of the rings trilogy. Um, so I probably had to say that and.
41:13.87
aggierobison
They could be anything man. Whatever book you want.
41:28.41
Evan Woolsoncroft
Yes, timeless classic. So that's right Oh I like the hobbit as well. Yeah, yeah, well too.
41:29.10
aggierobison
What about the hobbit? Where do you fall on that. Okay, good. Yeah because there's some people some people who love the lord of the rings the fellowship and then yeah, they're like oh yeah, the hobbit was terrible and I don't. I don't feel like that I like him both.
41:43.60
Evan Woolsoncroft
Yeah I mean like as far as the literature goes. The books are great. Um, my little boy who's 5 almost 6 he loves Lord of the rings and we haven't read the books yet. He just loves the world. The world building and Tolkien is a master. At creating a world that you can immerse yourself into and so um, sometimes you can get a little dense but man it's like I don't know truly inspiring and there's like moments in that in the books where it's just you he gets the human heart and it's it's made manifest in um, a call for magnanimity. For some characters I call to meekness for others friendship I mean it's got it's got everything okay
42:21.30
aggierobison
Oh yeah, no I agree. It's a phenomenal book. I loved the movies, I loved the books and we actually interviewed an author Julia Golding on the Petrus Development Show. So this is 2 throwbacks to episodes episode 76 and
42:40.27
aggierobison
They were trying to save they were they were doing a campaign to save Tolkien's house in. Ah yeah, I think outside of Oxford maybe um and they were going to set it up as a writing center to honor Tolkien in all of his work. So.
42:43.65
Evan Woolsoncroft
How cool.
42:56.16
aggierobison
Yeah, what about the new Amazon series the rings of power have you guys gotten into that. How do you feel just like to protect what you love about lord of the rings. You're like okay.
43:01.40
Evan Woolsoncroft
No I didn't watch it. So um I don't know, yeah mostly I did enough I did enough research ahead of time to kind of see what like part of me was like well I'm also I also enjoy the star wars franchise. Um. And when I say that I mean like these 6 movies that I consider the you know there 1 1 through 6 um, but like man the new star wars really burned me so I'm like you know I'm gonna pump the brakes a little bit on getting excited for anything I'll wait for the reviews to come out and then I'll see and I'm a big stickler on cannon.
43:24.17
aggierobison
Okay, yeah.
43:39.25
Evan Woolsoncroft
And so that's a good thing for me. It's like I don't know maybe that's just some of my Catholic roots coming up and you know like if it's like if that didn't happen in history I don't want you to like make it up or whatever. So yeah I've I've just avoided it and yeah I like where I'm at I like the books and I like the movies.
44:00.31
aggierobison
You're not looking for more. You just want to enjoy and experience what you have come to love right? Yeah I can appreciate that good. Well Evan it's been a pleasure and I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation and thanks for.
44:15.17
aggierobison
Ah, sharing with us your insights and thoughts and um I Just ah, wish you all the best if people want to get a hold of you or to learn more about your work at Heroic media where can they go.
44:26.62
Evan Woolsoncroft
The best place would be just email me directly [email protected] this on my last name should be in the title of the episode. So um, but.
44:41.90
Evan Woolsoncroft
Send me an email. I have a we just recorded a ted talk on essentially just this new like the future of pro-life our mission and how we're accomplishing it through our strategic goals. It's ah twenty Twenty five minutes and so ah send me an email and I'll just send you the link to that. Um, you can also just visit our website heroicmedia.org but the best way is just contact me directly and I'll share whatever we have with you.
45:06.91
aggierobison
Great. Well I appreciate it and I guess this is the part where I make a motion that we call this meeting to an end right? Adjourn Ok ok, thank you I like to make a motion. Do I have a second okay great. The motion passes.
45:17.74
Evan Woolsoncroft
Adjourn Yeah, the word you're looking for is adjourn. Yes.
45:26.89
aggierobison
Thank you very much Evan it's been a pleasure to all you listening thanks for joining me and ah you can always reach out to us at podcast petrusdevelopment.com love to chat and other than that God bless you and we'll see you next time.
45:38.11
Evan Woolsoncroft
Thank You. That was fun.
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