Stronger Together - A Petrus Development Show Episode on Personality Assessments

Welcome back to the Petrus Development Show!  We continue our Q+A series with Petrus president, Andrew Robison, and this week's discussion is about personality strengths and weaknesses and how those traits affect your fundraising.    

Show Notes: 

Andrew and Rhen begin their discussion with a fun question.  Which of the following tools do you most closely identify with:  a hammer, a measuring tape, a screwdriver, or a saw?  As they explain, which tool you choose might have a lot to say about your personality type. 

From there, Andrew and Rhen turn to a more formal personality testing model, closely resembling the Myers Briggs test, and they discuss 4 core pairs of attributes.  They outline specifics of these attributes, and they explain how fundraisers can develop professional strategies that are inclusive of both their strengths and their weaknesses.

Specifically, Andrew answers the following questions: 

Listen to this episode and learn the answers to these questions and more!  As mentioned at the end of the episode, Petrus has a worksheet about personality strengths and weaknesses in  fundraising.  Sign up to receive this free resource by clicking here.  

Finally, we welcome your fundraising questions for potential use in future shows.  Are there questions you'd like to hear Andrew answer?  If so, email us at [email protected] with your question, and it just might appear in a future Petrus Development Show episode. 

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

00:09.73
aggierobison
All right? We're good. Well, howdy, everyone, and welcome to the Petrus Development Show. My name is Rhen Hoehn from Petrus, and I am joined today again by the owner and president of Petrus, Mr. Andrew Robinson. Hello, Andrew.

00:13.60
AROB
I'm good.

00:25.41
AROB
Thank you very much, Rhen, and I'd just like to point out that you did open this episode with a "howdy," and I'm very happy about that because this is not your normal style of language. To use "howdy" is so—it must be after so many years working together. There is some part of me that is rubbing off on you, which is good.

00:44.62
aggierobison
It definitely rubs off, and after one hundred and thirty-something episodes of the show, it feels wrong, last couple of times, to not start it with a "well, howdy, everyone." So I thought I'd give it a shot and see how it felt.

00:53.87
AROB
Ah, yeah, yeah, well, good. No, I appreciate that. One of my favorite things when I am talking to a group that maybe I know, maybe I don't know is I like to start off a lot of times with an introduction and a "howdy, everyone." Then everyone says they look at me, and then I say, "Wait, wait, wait. Okay, we have a tradition at A&M," which incidentally I'm wearing my A&M gear today. But we have a tradition where when you're speaking to a group of people, whether it's one person—which I guess is not a group, talking like one person—or whether it's a hundred people, if you say "howdy," their proper response back is "howdy." So it works really well for quieting a crowd before you talk or make an announcement. You can just yell "howdy," and then half the room will say "howdy," and then the other half will say, "Wait, what's going on?" And then you say "howdy," and then everybody responds, "howdy," and then all of a sudden, boom. You've got everybody's attention. So it is a very helpful—what would that be called? It wouldn't be a mnemonic, but a helpful device for quieting a crowd when it's time to talk.

02:09.77
aggierobison
That's excellent. The longer we've worked together, the more I've picked up on all these customs around Texas A&M, which definitely, of any university I've ever been around, has its own culture. That's the most distinctive I've ever seen. You've told me there are even certain salutations depending on.

02:25.97
aggierobison
When you graduated compared to somebody else and all these different traditions.

02:30.94
AROB
Yes, we are and we are not short on traditions at Texas A&M. It doesn't take much effort to even create new traditions because we have so many that it's kind of like, "Well, that started somehow. Let's start a new one. Okay, we've done this twice together. Let's call it a tradition. Great, perfect, all right. We're all happy moving on. Yeah."

02:49.14
aggierobison
Excellent. There's a lot of fun. All right, well, let's transition into our "look at that Sideway." Let's transition into our subject for the day, which...

02:58.58
AROB
Well, I think this is a good transition because you're talking about traditions at A&M and how I live and breathe and pass on the traditions that I have experienced. We're talking today about leaning into your strengths, right? Utilizing what you know. And that's what I know—traditions and traditions at A&M. I'm not afraid to pass those along to other people and use them to my advantage, clearly.

03:24.61
aggierobison
Excellent, yeah. So let's talk a little bit about that. We wanted to talk about a different. Not so much of a nuts and bolts topic today. We get asked all the time or people tell us all the time, "Oh, I'm not the right personality to be going out doing fundraising, right? You've got to find somebody who's better suited, somebody who is very extroverted, very straightforward, is going to go out there and just knock down doors and shake people upside down and take their money." And that's not necessarily how it actually works in the real world with fundraising. So I want to talk a little bit about personality styles and finding your strengths within your own personality and maybe identifying your weaknesses that you can complement.

03:45.76
AROB
But.

04:02.59
aggierobison
Them within your team with other people that have strengths in those areas. Some excellent. Well, let's get into it then. A few years ago at the Petris Development Conference, as it was called at the time, Petras Leadership Conference at the time in Oklahoma City, we had a speaker named Guy Malabone who is a well-known fundraiser in Canada and he.

04:04.41
AROB
Sounds like a great discussion.

04:22.19
aggierobison
Gave a little talk about personality styles, and he started by having every person in the room go to a different corner of the room based on what tool they identified with without giving us any information about what each tool meant or why you had to identify with them. But he said, "All right? You're either a hammer, a measuring tape, a screwdriver, or a saw. Pick what your corner corresponds to each of those that you feel like represents you," and then he did this excellent talk breaking down over time. Once you kind of figured out, "Okay, I personally went to the measuring tape corner," and we got talking to the others in that corner. "Oh, you know why did you come to this corner?" and discussing why we felt like we identified as a measuring tape and each of the other corresponding corners did as well. Then he kind of broke it down and showed us kind of why, how we view ourselves and our personality, how what we're comfortable with with our personality and how we approach things and how that maps to our strengths and weaknesses within fundraising. Yeah, maybe we should break that down a little bit. Um.

05:18.44
AROB
Sure.

05:21.30
aggierobison
Can you tell us what he meant by say a hammer and talk about personality styles?

05:26.12
AROB
Sure. So, um, you can kind of start to intuit what some of these tools might mean in terms of personality. So a hammer typically is going to be very assertive. You see a problem, you have a solution, and that is to hit it really hard, right? So, um, really assertive personalities would kind of fall into this hammer category. People who have one tool in the tool belt, and it's always a hammer, ah, you know, that's going to fall into this personality. But it is very, you know, kind of an assertive "I see a problem, I may know fix a problem" kind of personality, which is great. So from a fundraising standpoint, that can be helpful because it means that you see a problem and you know what the solution is. It's to go and ask somebody for money or it's to ask for a gift or it's to be assertive and to be bold, which is great. Um, so that is a hammer personality. Can get you in a little bit of trouble because you have one solution to every problem, and sometimes fundraising requires going to nuanced solutions and strategies, and when you have one tool in your tool belt and it's to hit things really hard, that can sometimes get you into trouble, but it is a good personality for fundraising because you're pretty fearless and willing to come dive in and solve a problem. However, whatever it needs to be. Okay, measuring tape would be the opposite side. So I think that it's perfect that you identified with the measuring tape because.

06:45.87
aggierobison
And how about the measuring tape?

06:56.95
AROB
Measuring tape personalities are typically people who want to analyze things and get to understand what the problem is and understand what kind of all the different solutions or strategies might be before really jumping in and solving something. So a lot of time spent doing research, a lot of time spent doing, um, you know, analysis, looking at, you know, comparing this problem versus that problem and this solution versus that time and what would the solution be this time, so in a woodshop, which I do a lot of woodworking, and you know, I use my tape measure just enough to. To figure out. You know, if I'm cutting things the right way or if I, you know, to get my measurements, but I will admit I don't use my measuring tape enough. Um, and sometimes it gets me in trouble, and sometimes, you know, I measure it and I say, "Oh, good," and then I cut it, and then it doesn't match up perfectly, and I think, "What the thing up, and I measured it." And then I go, and I realize my measuring tape was actually kind of the end was hung up on something. So, um, using your being in that measuring tape personality. It's someone who is very analytical and wanting to kind of understand something before taking action. But from a fundraising standpoint, there's a very clear connection to fundraisers who are comfortable studying data, comfortable, um, you know, kind of looking at problems and identifying problems and coming up with multiple strategies for how to solve the problems, which is good. So when you do.

08:25.81
AROB
Jump in and take action, you know exactly what you're going to get because you've assessed the problem. On the flip side, tape measures can sometimes get hung up with inaction, right? It's kind of that rule of, you know, the perfect answer is whatever you're going to take action and do, right? Whereas sometimes you get.

08:42.51
aggierobison
Um, yeah.

08:43.70
AROB
Sort of analysis by paralysis by analysis. You get stuck saying, "Here's all the possible solutions. Which one do I need to choose? Otherwise, I'm going to regret my decision later on."

08:50.96
aggierobison
Exactly. The adage is "measure twice, cut once." If you're a measuring tape, the danger can be "measure 3 or 4 or 8 or 10 times, be really, really sure." As a measuring tape, it's very attractive to think of working with a hammer, find the right solution, and send them to go knock it out of the park, right?

09:00.37
AROB
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there you go.

09:10.53
aggierobison
Ah, excellent. So how about moving on to the next personality type, the screwdriver.

09:16.90
AROB
Okay, so ah, hammer and tape measure are pretty clear, right? You've got kind of two ends of the spectrum in terms of personality: really assertive and really cautious. Um, you know with the hammer and the tape measure. Screwdriver and saw, they kind of live in the middle. But you think of a screwdriver as somebody who is, um, kind of willing to take action, but they don't need to hit it hard the first time, right? You are more willing and able to um, work through a problem slowly, to identify kind of how to move forward. Um, test out your strategies, and if they don't work, you can back it out. You can try something else. Um, but a screwdriver is somebody who's kind of very comfortable with flexibility and assessing the situation and moving forward as you, you know, as it works, you know, as it you think it's going to work out, right? Um, from a fundraising standpoint, um, screwdrivers often are comfortable living in both worlds, right? The analysis, I can try something if it doesn't work, I can test it and I can back out. Um, but they're not stuck always in the perfect solution. Um, and never moving forward because you are willing to take action. On the flip side, kind of the downside of a screwdriver is that sometimes they don't spend enough time in the data or they don't spend enough time with analysis, and then on the other side, they're not as assertive and bold, and, um, you know, sometimes, you know, you spend too much time kind of trying something and retrying it or trying something or retrying it versus just going forward, getting it done.

10:48.80
AROB
Get off your to-do list and move on. So I think from a screwdriver standpoint, it's kind of a blending of the two. They live in the middle. Um, and I would say probably most people, most fundraisers are going to identify with the screwdriver personality because you're flexible enough to try and retry, but you're not getting stuck never taking action. Oh, the saw is an interesting one. So. There's a lot of analogies with a saw, and, um, you know, a saw is somebody who can see a problem. They can use that analysis mind of the, um, um, analysis part of their brain to assist the problem, and you can almost kind of slice a big problem up into smaller pieces that are manageable. So you have a big capital campaign, and you think, gosh, we can't raise $10,000,000. Say okay, well, what if we just focused on raising the first two million dollars, right? That'd be slice off a part of the problem. Focus on that. Um, it also means, though, that, you know, kind of another, you know, analogy to saws is once you, you will assess the situation. Um, you will kind of, um, you know, think of possible solutions. But then once you decide, "Hey, this is the path," boom, cut, you can't read. You can't uncut something. Um, so it is a personality that is, "Hey, I'm willing to assess. But once I make a decision, I'm committed to that decision, and I'm going to live with the results in the end." So from a fundraising standpoint, you know, we kind of already talked about the capital campaign idea, but it also applies to, you know, your year-end appeal. All right? Who's going to sign it? Are we going to have, and chaplain sign it? Are we going to have a student sign it? Um, all right. This is what we would see, you know, these are the, um, possible responses if we choose that I'm gonna go. We're gonna go with the board member, boom, done. Let's move on. So, um, it kind of applies. It gives you a sense of kind of looking at a situation and not. Analyzing it, make a decision, moving forward, and then being happy with the results. Oh gosh, I think I'm usually the that depends on kind of the mood I'm feeling right? Then I'm definitely not the hammer, and I'm definitely not the tape measure. So.

12:46.72
aggierobison
Which of those four did you fall into?

13:02.10
AROB
Think it actually probably has to do with what project I'm currently working on back in my shop of whether I'm, you know, I've been cutting more or I've been assembling more? Um, but I'm definitely in the screwdriver or the saw category. I'm probably closer to the saw because I do feel like and this is something that I've grown into. I wasn't always this way. Certainly um. But, you know, ah, you have to analyze the situation. You have to think creatively. What are my solutions? But then once you make a solution, boom, I'm done. I'm not going to go back and second-guess myself. Maybe I cut something a little too short, and that's going to be a problem, but I can't add it back. So. We're going to have to find another solution at that time. It's not a kind of, you know, I'm going to screw it in, and if I don't like it, I'm going to back it out and retry it. No, it's you make a decision and then you live with the results. So I'd probably say saw most of the time.

13:56.70
aggierobison
From the outside. That's the one that I would have guessed you would fall into, but this is a kind of self-identification tool, all right? You kind of put yourself in your own category. I think it'd be worth some time looking at one that's got a little more kind of scientific research behind it, a different personality test. Um, they'd be the Myers-Briggs.

13:57.60
AROB
Yeah, yeah.

14:09.90
AROB
Yeah.

14:12.39
aggierobison
And the Myers-Briggs ah breaks up and essentially four categories. Some places do five, and there's a lot of this, and each category has kind of two options. You're either this or that, right, within that category, and it's your tendencies. It doesn't define you. It's not like you're always this way or 100% this way.

14:20.67
AROB
Right.

14:30.13
aggierobison
Ah, but your tendency is to be this way or to be that way and there's a lot of science behind it. What I would recommend doing so we we use a website called sixteenpersonalities.com. It's, um, you go in. You can take a free test there. It's a Myers-Briggs ask test. It's got the same kind of categories in there, and when you take that test, the important thing is to answer the way that you naturally feel like you'd answer not the way you feel like you ought to answer right? There's no right answer so you're trying to get a sense of yourself and and once you once you do the test it spits out your results. There's sixteen different options to the two with you know, four times four.

14:55.43
AROB
Yeah.

15:07.95
aggierobison
Categories and 2 options in each one and then they all mix up and as you read the description of your kind of personality. You'll find out a lot of things about yourself that you knew to be true and then just kind of open your eyes. It's a pretty interesting process. So let's dive in. I want to just touch on each of the 4 categories and the 2 options without going too deep and into these. And we can talk about how they might apply to a fundraiser in their work. Especially, I think working with lots of different students in our boat course our annual manual. This is something that comes up kind of regularly and so it's interesting to think about, to play some mental games with these personalities and how you can apply them. To your fundraising so the first category is introverted versus extroverted. This is probably the most commonly familiar of the categories for most people and it defines your energy and how you interact with your surroundings. Introverts prefer solitary activities. They get exhausted by social interaction.

15:50.39
AROB
Right.

16:02.92
aggierobison
And they're sensitive to external stimulation whereas Extroverts prefer group activities. They get energized by social interaction and they're more enthusiastic and more easily excited.

16:10.63
AROB
And I think that what you're talking about is the right way to think of introverted versus Extroverted. It's not what are you willing to do or what are you unwilling to do which is how a lot of people think of introverts versus extroverts right? Um, ah, kind of Introvert you know I I live. Kind of close to the middle but I'm definitely um, I lean on the E the inch the extroverted side of life. So that means so you know if I go out and tell people I'm extroverted and I tested E on the Myers bridge people would say Oh yeah, Well, that means you love talking to people and you love being around people and you hate being by yourself and you hate silence and. It's kind of like well no, that doesn't necessarily mean that. That's my the only thing that I can you know find energy or appreciate. But it's where do I find my energy. So um, when I am around other people then it kind of it does energize me. It gives me excitement I don't have social anxiety when I'm with a group of people. And whenever I kind of finish a group I'm a you know group setting or a party or something like that I might be tired but I'm excited and I'm kind of amped up. Um, introverted doesn't mean that you can't go talk to people right? Ah, you know you would probably say ren that you are very close very high on the.

17:24.52
aggierobison
And almost every category I'm I'm kind of in the middle introverted when I took the test came out 100% introverted and I don't think that's a mistake I think that is pretty correct.

17:24.62
AROB
Ah, the I scale correct.

17:30.73
AROB
Okay, yeah, so all right, all right? but that doesn't mean that you can't talk to people or you can't interact you know at a party or at ah a fundraising event or at a wedding it just means that that is at the end of that event that's very draining for you.

17:47.90
aggierobison
Right.

17:49.53
AROB
And not in like a you know I'm I'm just exhausted from a day but it's like I've put all my energy into interacting with people and um, it was great. I enjoyed it while I was there but gosh I am really drained. My wife is very high I don't think she'd be 100 but she's definitely like 85 to 90 on the introverted. And so you know between the 2 of us. Um, you know if we're trying to figure out kind of what we're going to do you know on a date night I might say hey let's go bowling because um, you know there'll be a lot of people around. There's a lot of you know energy a lot of excitement. We can invite some friends we can do that and she's kind of like well that be fun. But what if we just went to a movie just you and me. So.

18:25.51
aggierobison
Yeah.

18:27.98
AROB
Um, you know it's not that they can't do you can't do one or the other it's that what does where do you kind of find your energy and then on on the flip side right? So I would say that I'm extroverted but gosh if I get on an ah, airplane I do not want to you know, strike up a conversation with my airplane neighbor and talk for 2 hours I want to put in my airpods. I want to listen to a book. Um, pull out my laptop and kind of have that quiet time because that you know that's what I want to do on an airplane or you know in other settings I'm fine kind of being alone and and finding that quiet space. But that doesn't mean that you know that that doesn't mean that. Um, or or you wouldn't say well you're not allowed to do that or that doesn't bring you joy because you're extrovert. No, that's just you you can do both. It's just sometimes you feel more comfortable because you're more energized afterwards.

19:15.50
aggierobison
Exactly and this is probably the topic within this broader personality topics that I have the most conversations with others about is with others about is can I be a successful fundraiser if I'm an introvert and I did this for a bunch of years a very very high introvert doing fundraising.

19:32.14
aggierobison
What I found is that I just had to build some introvert time into my schedule. So if I was out meeting donors all day, I would have 4 or 5 meetings in the day, but I would build in time. Okay, between this meeting and this meeting, I'm going to stop at this park and go for a walk by myself for half an hour and just be alone and recharge or. At a conference say in the middle of the day, I'm probably going back to my room for a little while just to get away from all the people right? Um, and there's certain situations one on one usually isn't a problem for me. But when you get into bigger groups. It's like ah that it gets a little bit overwhelming, so I got to build in some time to recharge.

20:03.51
AROB
But this is also ah, kind of to your point ran um, finding your um, your partners in work. Um and sort of balancing yourselves is also something where you can really utilize. You know this is talking about using your strength. You can utilize your strengths in cooperation with other people on your team right? So I know when you were fundraising with Father Ben who would be very high on the extrovert scale right? So you can. You can lean into your strengths as an introvert and ah you know, kind of focus on um, you know that that you know 1 on 1.

20:29.48
aggierobison
Definitely.

20:39.50
AROB
You know conversations or um, you know that that time kind of in reflection and know that Father Ben is going to talk to the whole crowd right? He's going to gather. You know everybody and make sure that they're you know he's got a story to tell and then but then you know you you flip that and when he doesn't. Feel as comfortable doing the one on one like you're ready to go and that's your strength right? So it is this is an area where having an introverted personality and an extrovert of extroverted personality paired together as part of a development team. You can be really successful in fundraising.

21:14.85
aggierobison
Exactly, 1 more point I wanted to make this. We're spend a little bit more time on this topic than the others I think um 1 thing that I learned is that in sales introverts actually tend to perform a little better than extroverts which is very counterintuitive but the reason why. Is the extraver lean into their charisma their personality to you know and in those conversations with with prospects introverts usually don't have that so much and they tend to build a script and kind of a b test it one. You know one meeting after the next and that's definitely how I approach fundraising I had my basic script of. Ah, probably going to start with talking about these topics as we get warmed up I mean this is my transition into this topic. This is my transition into making the ask this is my transition and into closing up the meeting and those parts you know, kind of became they got better and better as I tried them more and more and figured out what worked and I approached things that way as opposed to just going with the flow.

21:52.18
AROB
Yeah.

22:05.61
aggierobison
And I think that did help me be more successful over time so that just can be 1 way that introverts can succeed is is think about your your approach to a meeting build a script follow that script and makes it light easier mentally for you than to rely on hopefully hoping something interesting is going to come out of your mouth.

22:21.27
AROB
Yeah, and then when you're not kind of client facing or donor facing. Um, right? You're comfortable, kind of working on spreadsheets for you know, half a day and kind of doing all of your um, your donor research or. Ah, cleaning up your database ah is a kind of very very tedious task because you're all alone. Um, you're just working through charts. But you're comfortable doing that whereas you know somebody who's highly extroverted and needs to be around people all the time you put them in a room with a computer and say you know, clean up this database for the next six hours and you know they're going to beat their heads against the wall and so. It is. You know it's you can lean into your strengths when you're interacting with donors. But then you can also really lean into your strength when you are doing um, non donor facing work that you know it does it brings you energy even if um, your. Ah, you know other people might say well this is I can't really do this. You know I lose patience or I get too exhausted doing it by myself. You know and that is something that as an introverted personality. You could really lean into.

23:21.57
aggierobison:
Hundred percent. Alright, before you spend too much time on this topic, let's move on to the next kind of category of personalities, and that would be known as observance versus intuitive, right? So each of these categories is represented by letters. Extrovert is E, introvert is I, so when you...

23:26.35
AROB:
Great.

23:40.43
aggierobison:
Take the 16 personalities test. You again have an E or I for your first letter; second letter is S for observant, N for intuitive. Observant people tend to be practical, pragmatic, down-to-earth; they have strong habits and tend to focus on what is happening or what has happened. Whereas intuitive people tend to be more imaginative, open-minded, and curious. They prefer novelty over stability and tend to focus on hidden meanings and future possibilities. So within fundraising, oh, go ahead.

24:09.58
AROB:
Yeah, so in a little bit, this is the next one is also kind of in this world as well. But it's almost like the scientist versus the artist, right? The scientist says, "Here's what I can see; here's what I am observing, and I'm going to build a plan and a strategy around what that."

24:19.54
aggierobison:
Um, yeah.

24:29.51
AROB:
Intuitive is, "Here's what I'm seeing. But what does that mean? What's the backstory behind that, and how can I develop a strategy that is inclusive of that?" Not saying one is better than the other. But, um, it certainly, you know, as a scientist, you're going to be very focused on what you can see; these are the facts, and I'm going to develop a pragmatic and a practical plan, like you said, on that, whereas intuitive, you're saying, "Alright, here's what I might not know. I don't analyze what I see as well. But I can paint a picture around that of what are the other, you know, sort of factors that I want to be aware of when I'm solving this problem."

25:16.25
aggierobison:
Exactly, exactly. So within fundraising, observing people tend to find it easier to create a system and start executing it, giving executing it. They might be better at focusing more on their past results than on casting a vision for the future. That's something to kind of watch out for or maybe avoid doing too much of, and they have to be aware of getting bogged down in the numbers and bogging other people down in the numbers, right? Whereas exactly.

25:41.68
AROB:
Because the numbers are really important to you, right? The facts, the data. That's really important to you, and that's going to jive with some of your donors. But it can also—you can take that too far and just rely only on, "Here are the facts of our organization; here's what our ministry has accomplished," from a number standpoint, without really looking at the, you know, the greater impact that those numbers, the story that those numbers tell.

26:09.11

aggierobison

Exactly and then intuitive people more of those artist artistic people in general they tend to be looking for the next new thing so they have to be aware of that not being just focusing on the next new thing and and avoiding doing their kind of present Dutie and executing the system. Ah, but they can be really great at vision casting.

26:28.66

AROB

You you had an example that I really loved um to kind of show the difference between these two and when you ask 2 people 1 observant one intuitive to look out the window or look at a picture and and recreate it um draw what you are seeing. Then the observant person will draw the the frame the picture frame or the window frame and everything that they literally see within that frame whereas the intuitive person. They won't draw the frame. They'll start with what they can see. And then they'll actually expand that vision beyond. Um, you know, kind of show where the creek ends up and show you know the the height of the leaves on the tree versus just the the trunks and so it's again, not 1 is better than the other but it certainly. That's a that's a clear way of thinking about it that that's helpful to me um of you know. Either I I tell you what I see exactly or I tell you what I see and the meaning of what I'm seeing as well.

27:22.17

aggierobison

Exactly you can see how these complement each other really? Well if you can get both of these sides on a team I think our our intuition is to say oh my way is the best way people like me are the best. But if you get the opposite you might get a but a little bit of friction because of that. But you're going to get get a better result right? jumping into the third.

27:26.84

AROB

Yeah.

27:40.30

aggierobison

The 4 categories here thinking versus feeling so thinking is t feeling is f um, maybe this is a little more straightforward 1 but thinking people tend to focus on objectivity and rationality that prioritize logic over emotions they tend to hide their feelings and they think tend to think that efficiency is more important than cooperation whereas feeling people. Tend to be more sensitive and emotionally expressive. They're more empathetic less competitive and they focus on social harmony and cooperation.

28:07.83

AROB

So there's a there's a really good book by um Stanley general Stanley Mc Crystal called team of teams and he talks in that book a lot about effectiveness versus efficiency and and both are important. But if you are somebody who. Is more of a t then efficiency is really important to you right? like I'm going to maximize my the return on the investment of time energy resources. Whatever um, and I'm going to make sure that things are running smoothly and my plan is being followed to the t. Which is there's a lot of ah value in that effectiveness which is the sort of feeling side of things is all right? Well is the plan working and do I need to adjust to account for these other factors when I go off script. Um, and so you can see. Kind of ah you know back to that I and e you know you make a script or you kind of go with the flow. A little bit is like that in this um in these 2 letters as well is do I do I follow my plan because it's the most efficient or do I come up with a kind of a loose plan and modify based on that. Because it might be more effective in the end.

29:16.65 aggierobison Exactly. So, with thinkers, they focus on following the plan and getting the job done, but they might steamroll some people along the way. They could risk upsetting a donor. Feelers, on the other hand, are more in tune with their donor's feelings in a fundraising setting, but they might be more hesitant to make an ask, fearing it could disrupt the harmony in the relationship. A balance of both is essential.

29:39.41 AROB Right? Yeah, and I think going back to our analogy of a hammer as a tool and some of the other tools. It's easy to think, "Hammers are too assertive, too aggressive, and they'll rub people the wrong way." However, some of the best fundraisers I know are hammers. They focus on getting the job done, and while there might be some collateral damage, they reach their goals through strength and determination. This doesn't mean everyone can take that path, even if it's a calmer one. So, in the thinking versus feeling dynamic, one is not inherently better than the other, especially in fundraising. But when building a team, it's crucial to have a mix of both personalities.

30:14.55 aggierobison Absolutely.

30:33.76 AROB Building a team of people. It's really helpful to think, "Alright, this person is more focused on getting the job done, and this person is more focused on ensuring we get the job done without hurting anybody's feelings." It's important to have a team makeup that incorporates both of these personalities. You don't want to steamroll everybody, and you don't want to stand by without taking action because you're afraid of hurting feelings.

31:00.47 aggierobison Exactly. Finally, the last category is judging, represented by J, or prospecting, represented by P. The Js tend to be decisive, thorough, highly organized, valuing clarity, predictability, closure, and preferring structure and planning over spontaneity. On the other hand, the Ps are good at improvising and spotting opportunities. They tend to be flexible and relaxed, preferring to keep options open. An amusing analogy is that if you open the sock drawer of a J, you'll find a bunch of socks folded and organized, while a P's sock drawer is more likely to be a pile of different socks. Interestingly, these two personality types often end up marrying each other.

31:47.85 AROB: That's funny. Yeah, and there's often the, you know, in and all of these, right? If you are one. You know, you lean, you score higher in one. There's often times a, um, a desire to think, "Oh gosh, you know?" um.

31:59.50 aggierobison: Um.

32:02.85 AROB: Yeah, I'm a P, but gosh, it'd be really nice if my socks were really organized, right? Like it's, you know, I wish I could be more like that. Not to say that it's not, ah, proper to kind of work on your identifying your weaknesses and, um, you know, kind of work to improve things that truly are holding you back. But, um, it can be. You know, the other side of the fin, so to speak, can look a little bit more glamorous. Um, especially when you're struggling, and the truth of the matter is you have to, we have these gifts that God has given us, and these are strengths that we need to utilize, even if there are times that we feel like these are weaknesses that are holding us back. So, I would say that I'm a P, and, you know, I prefer to keep options up. Everything you said, I like to be flexible. I love to improvise and iterate. Um, but there are times that I think, gosh, you know, life would be a lot easier if I was just able to be more focused and, um, orient my plan and develop more structure. But the truth of the matter is that there are a lot of things that I would do really poorly if I didn't have that P side of my personality. And so, instead of...

33:12.25 AROB: Wishing that I was always something else, I tend to try to surround myself with people that address those weaknesses in a way that I can still kind of live that life of me in that high P or high perceiving but then also have people that are. That are organized that develop that structure that move us forward as a team in a way that um, that complements each other really well.

33:38.94 aggierobison: Exactly. I am a very strong J myself, and having worked with like you said, Father Ben for a lot of years, I was the director of the mystery I was working at. He definitely would not hide from the fact that he is a strong P, the very opposite, and that he had. Great strengths of just going with the flow through a meeting and kind of guiding a meeting into a good result. Ah, but he would usually lose track of the time. We quickly learned it was my job and my strength to monitor where are we, you know, timewise, get us to the next meeting on time. But if it was just me in a meeting, my. My tendency would be to say, "Oh alright? We've ah...

34:14.96 aggierobison: Going through our 10 minutes of allotted small talk, now I'm going to move on in 1 minute to the next topic, like various follows structured and and it's not always the best approach to a meeting. So I think having the two of us together was a really good compliment.

34:17.27 AROB: Um, yeah.

34:27.90 AROB: Yeah, and that's the thing is right like you don't have to, and even your donors, right? Sometimes you're going to meet your donors, and we're talking about kind of how to make a team layout or, you know, kind of um, ah grouping. But you have to... It's helpful to kind of be able to know these things and identify where your donors fit, and so if you're meeting with somebody who is a high S, for example, and you can identify that pretty quickly based on their work or just the conversation. Well, you can say, "Hey, this is somebody. That's really going to value the numbers that that maybe, um, you know, I wouldn't present to somebody else who is a high N for intuitive. And so you can, not that you kind of become all things to all people. But you present your. Present your sort of story or you present your proposals in a way that speaks to their strengths as well. Um, and that's really just kind of being aware of what these personality traits are is good for building a team and also good for interacting with your donors, with your vendors, with your partners in a way that. You are speaking to them in a way that they are going to hear you and um, be more inclined to listen to what you have to say.

35:42.56 aggierobison Hundred percent. Yeah, I went through an MBA program a number of years ago. When we first started the program, we got put in teams of 3, and we were given a personality test, the Myers-Briggs. Then we were given a bunch of scenarios and had to write a paper. It ended up being an 80-page paper, and in this scenario, how is each person going to react?

35:59.14 AROB Okay.

36:00.54 aggierobison Based on their personality styles. It was really annoying to do, but afterward, we worked together for the rest of the NBA program, and it helped us get out of a lot of fights and problems like, "Oh, you're just saying that because this is how you approach the world based on your personality," and it helped us become a really high-functioning team because of that. So the more you can be aware of how others.

36:13.74 AROB Faslers.

36:20.22 aggierobison How these all play together, it just helps everything. So excellent. Well, we're out of time for today. A few announcements quickly, and I'll record those later and have Eddie cut them in right here because I.

36:23.39 AROB I agree, I agree completely.

36:33.30 AROB We don't have to jump. If he calls, I'll just tell him I'll call him back in a minute.

36:39.61 aggierobison Okay, um, I don't have a promo code for Raise for that one yet, a promo code. You'd like to use the end of February.

36:50.27 AROB Is.

36:53.82 aggierobison Do-do-do, come on.

37:05.90 aggierobison Give me one second, is that for a specific chair of St. Peter? Um, so we use a promo code, Peter, right?

37:16.38 AROB Sure.

37:24.58 aggierobison We mentioned at the beginning of the show the Petrus Development Conference in the past. It's now called RAISE, the Catholic Fundraising Conference, and RAISE24 is coming up in just a few months at the end of June, June Twenty-Fourth through Twenty-Sixth in San Antonio, Texas, right on the River Walk and the Hotel Contessa. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah.

37:39.75 AROB All right. Plenty of people there are going to say howdy to you, Rhen, in case you're wondering. Okay.

37:44.47
aggierobison
A lot of them are correct, and I'm looking forward to that. Now I know how to respond, and so do all of our listeners. Respond with a good howdy. We have a promo going on for Raise right now. If you register before this Friday, February Twenty-Third, using the promo code Peter, you'll get 10% off of registration.

37:47.99
AROB
Okay, good.

38:03.29
aggierobison
So we hope you'll join us. Go to petrisdevepment.com/ray24 and use the promo code PETER because this week is the feast of the Chair of St. Peter—pretty exciting. And hopefully, we'll see you there. If you have a question you would like to have asked and featured on an episode of the Petrus Development Show.

38:11.99
AROB
Awesome right on.

38:23.28
aggierobison
Send it to a [email protected], and we may discuss it.

38:28.62
AROB
Awesome is a great conversation, Rhen. I enjoyed it.

38:29.55
aggierobison
And thanks for joining us today, Andrew. Good.

38:35.53
AROB
You betcha.

38:39.30
aggierobison
Felt a little bit rushed at the end, but we got there. Cool. Oh, that's right? Yeah, yep, if you have a second I did not let's do that. I'll turn off my stuff here.

38:42.50
AROB
I think it's fine. You only doing promo or a did you already stop recording?

38:59.78
AROB
And so I'm saying that this is going to go out the day that the episode releases, correct, and what number is this going to be.

39:08.28
aggierobison
Yeah, yep, February Twenty-Second, that is why I don't have the episode numbers. Ah, 4, 5, six, seven should be one thirty-seven. Yeah.

39:15.30
AROB
I think it was one thirty-seven. I think the one I did last time was one thirty-six.

39:23.47
AROB
And so what about what's the URL I point him to.

39:28.75
aggierobison
I just petrusdevelopment.com/podcast. That'll get them there.

39:31.30
AROB
Okay, great. Well, howdy, everyone. Andrew Robinson here, owner and president of Petrus Development and also host of the Petrus Development Show. I am excited. We've got a great episode this week, episode one thirty-seven is all about personalities and can anybody be a fundraiser regardless of their personality. This is a question that we get a lot: hey, I'm an introvert, can I be a good fundraiser? Hey, I'm an extrovert, can I maintain a database right? and so we talk about on this episode today. We talk about. Um, an analogy that we got from a great speaker, Guy Mallabone, about are you a hammer, a measuring tape, a screwdriver, or a saw? We talk about Myers-Briggs and what's important to you. We talk about how can you use your strengths, your personality strengths to be a great fundraiser and to connect with your donors on a deeper level. So check us out. Today's episode is a good one, episode one thirty-seven. Go to petrusdevelopment.com/podcast, and you can find it there. Thanks, have a great day, God bless.