Remain Calm + Do No Harm - A Petrus Development Show Episode on Fundraising Etiquette

We're shaking things up this week and going in a unexpected direction - we're talking about table manners and more!  In this episode,  Andrew and Rhen, as the leaders of our Petrus finishing school, discuss all things etiquette.  While, at first glance, this topic might seem superficial and tedious, Rhen and Andrew cover essential guidelines for fundraising professionals who interact with donors at formal events and meals.

Show Notes: 

From best practices at cocktail receptions to proper dining etiquette during formal dinners, Andrew breaks down how to navigate these social situations professionally and gracefully. His advice focuses on two key approaches: strictly following traditional etiquette rules, or at minimum, following the principle of "do no harm".  The primary goal of any donor interaction is to avoid any social missteps that could impact future donor relationships.

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

07:02.16
Host
Well, howdy, everybody. Welcome back to the Petrus Development Show. This is Rhen Hoehn from Petrus Development, and joining me today, the big guy, Andrew Robinson, owner and president of Petrus. How's it going, Andrew?

07:14.99
AROB
Hey, Rhen, I'm doing great. I am enjoying life. Things are good.

07:21.23
Host
Excellent. Did you have a good Thanksgiving?

07:23.28
AROB
Well, I mean, you know, good Thanksgiving can be defined by a lot of different people in a lot of different ways. Yes, it was fine. We had the kids all week because they're all... I don't know.

07:35.92
AROB
I didn't grow up having all week off from school for Thanksgiving. This is like new.

07:41.86
AROB
I mean, we got Thursday and Friday, maybe like a half day on Wednesday, but...

07:46.18
Host
Yeah.

07:46.27
AROB
And even when Annabelle, who is my oldest, was little, I don't remember a full week. Now all the kids are home all week for Thanksgiving. So we actually went camping the first half, which was a lot of fun.

07:53.93
Host
You...

07:58.12
AROB
I took two of the kids. My wife prefers beds and sheets and baths—I don't get it.

08:06.17
Host
Makes no sense.

08:07.83
AROB
That's weird. But, uh, I can always convince the other two, and actually Ellie really wanted to come and she was pretty upset when we left her, but I can only handle so many.

08:18.49
AROB
So yeah, we did camping and then, you know, Thanksgiving dinner, which is always a treat and always something that we both look forward to and dread with little kids.

08:29.96
AROB
So it played out exactly like we expected it to.

08:34.93
Host
Yeah, there are pros and cons to Thanksgiving, right? It sounds good leading into it, and then by the end of the week, you're like, "All right, go back to school, give us back some routine."

08:44.12
AROB
Sorry.

08:45.43
Host
Let's move on here.

08:45.73
AROB
Yes.

08:46.66
Host
Yeah, it's... One thing I noticed at Thanksgiving dinner is it's a free-for-all.

08:53.78
AROB
Oh, yeah.

08:55.85
Host
Our kids are young enough that we haven't quite worked on dinner etiquette yet, and we get together with a bunch of families, and there's kids sitting all over the house on every surface. You know, they're eating Jello with their fingers, and there's all kinds of stuff going on.

09:08.56
Host
It's a bit of a mess. And so that got me thinking—something we get asked about quite a bit is etiquette, where a lot of us are going out meeting donors face-to-face, having dinner with them.

09:19.35
AROB
Yeah, there you go.

09:20.50
Host
And so it can be a bit imposing. You might be going to meet a high-level donor at—I mean, I've worked with donors where the director of the ministry I was working for went to the Congressional Country Club for dinner with one of our donors every year.

09:34.30
AROB
There you go.

09:35.08
Host
And neither of us knew how to handle that situation. That's a much fancier and more formal place to go out in the DC area than any of us had ever been to locally, right?

09:45.24
Host
So knowing how to handle the etiquette in those situations can be a little bit tricky. It's not something that's necessarily taught as much anymore either, right?

09:51.34
AROB
Right.

09:53.37
Host
It's kind of fallen by the wayside a little bit.

09:53.84
AROB
Right.

09:55.41
Host
And so today we're going to do at least part one of Petrus' finishing school. We're going to get you all etiquette-ed up.

10:01.46
AROB
Nice.

10:04.40
AROB
Do I have to do the whole episode with my pinky out like this?

10:07.82
Host
I'll do that with my coffee right now. Here we go.

10:10.36
AROB
OK. Good.

10:12.56
Host
It's tricky.

10:12.82
AROB
Yeah. And I mean, there's two different ways to approach mealtime with your donors, right? One can be that you understand the rules of proper etiquette, you abide by them, and you kind of go to the extreme. The other can be you do no harm, right? You know the basic rules of how to conduct yourself at a dinner, how to conduct yourself at a social event, and you just don't want the donor to leave and go tell their spouse or their kids like, "Oh my gosh, that kid was a numbskull and didn't know anything."

10:51.49
AROB
And not saying that that's ever happened, but certainly like you said, when you're right out of college or you're young and you haven't really had...

10:52.24
Host
Right.

11:01.25
AROB
occasions and you haven't had a reason to learn this kind of stuff, it can be pretty simple to fall into patterns of, you know, when you eat a sandwich every meal of the week, it feels like. And it's kind of like, "All right, what do I do with all these utensils at the plate?" So anyway, I think this will be helpful. We'll talk about kind of the, like you said, finishing school, the proper, the best way to do these things. But if you can't remember all of this, it's fine. Just remember, do no harm, right? Like...

11:30.56
AROB
follow the simple rules of etiquette and then you'll be in a good place.

11:35.65
Host
Exactly. The more of these types of dinners you attend or go to, the more of these things you're going to pick up naturally, but if you can get ahead of that and not embarrass yourself, all the better.

11:49.25
AROB
Yeah.

11:49.82
Host
So let's start from even before the meal here, we're going to kind of go step by step through a formal dinner process. And I think we're gonna start maybe a little bit outside that—let's start with a reception. Let's say you're at a fundraising event, right? Maybe you're having an event, a gala at the end of the year here, and it starts at the reception or social hour, cocktail hour before the actual dinner. Let's talk a little bit about some of the best tips for etiquette at a social hour.

12:15.78
AROB
Okay. So just a few simple ones. Number one, when you're walking around, you're mingling, hold your drink in your left hand, right? Because what do you want to be doing with your right hand all night?

12:28.20
Host
Shaking hands.

12:28.78
AROB
There you go. Exactly. Meeting new people, seeing people, seeing your donors you haven't seen in a while. So, you know, having to switch your drink every time you shake hands can be awkward. Just think "I'm going to hold my drink in my left hand so that I can shake with my right." So that's pretty simple.

12:43.48
Host
You don't want that right hand to be cold and clammy either, right?

12:46.31
AROB
There you go.

12:46.94
Host
It's just something you gotta think about.

12:47.03
AROB
Exactly.

12:49.26
Host
You just keep your drink in your left hand as much as possible.

12:52.62
AROB
Correct. Another tip at these events is that while you can—a lot of times you have like a cocktail dinner and a cocktail menu, right? Like some hors d'oeuvres and your drink. So you can get all that and you can go sit at the table, but as the fundraiser or as the guy or the gal at the meeting or the event that should be meeting people, it's a lot better to just stand. Hold your—you know, sometimes they have tall tables you can stand by—but just stand there so that you can be ready to move around, greet people when you see them walk in the door. You take a couple of bites of your food and then, you know, not plan to sit down and make a whole meal of it.

13:33.50
Host
Yeah, you want to be open and easier for people to walk up and join you, right?

13:37.76
AROB
Yep. So when you are approaching other people, if two people are real deep in conversation, let them finish their conversation, go find somebody else. They'll be there all night. You don't have to talk with them immediately, but it can be unnerving if somebody is—if you're in a deep conversation and then somebody comes up right in there and wants to shake your hand immediately. That can be frustrating. Again, do no harm, right? So wait till there's a break, introduce yourself, and then you can look for visual cues for how to join the conversation. You know, somebody taking a sip or turning around or hearing a noise and kind of disrupting the conversation—that's a lot better than really being intrusive and interrupting.

14:15.95
AROB
Interrupting...

14:16.87
Host
I want to toss in a tip that somebody gave me at some point that I find useful. If you're looking for a group to join, if everybody looks like they're deep in conversation, a good spot to stand is actually just outside of the bar area, right next to the bar. So as people walk away with their drinks, with their food, they start looking around, "Who should I go talk to?" Oh, here's the person standing right here. I'll stop and talk to them, right? As a very introverted person for whom cocktail hours are pretty terrifying, I find that to be—I'm going to leave myself open in this spot, let them come up to me.

14:45.13
Host
I find that to be a good way to approach that.

14:48.13
AROB
There you go. And we're talking about, you know, not just big events, but also if you're at a donor's home. You know, somebody's hosting a small gathering at their home—again, right, there's going to be a table where there's drinks being served or whatever.

15:00.08
AROB
That's a good place for you to kind of camp out, at least for this initial part of the evening.

15:06.97
Host
Exactly. And then I think the final tip I'd throw in here is to always keep good eye contact with the people you're talking to.

15:07.73
AROB
Yep.

15:12.29
Host
Don't be scanning the room constantly, right?

15:14.85
AROB
Yeah. You want to be present in those conversations. Exactly.

15:19.16
Host
Excellent. So that's kind of the cocktail hour. You may or may not have that depending on the formal dinner situation. So now let's talk about—maybe switch gears a little bit. Either you're getting to dinner or maybe you're going to a restaurant meeting a donor there. What are kind of some of the things to keep in mind when it comes to the arrival at the site?

15:38.23
AROB
Yeah. So number one, most important at the beginning is be on time, right?

15:42.73
Host
Yeah.

15:42.81
AROB
My wife is really good about this. I am not so good. In her mind, if you're not five minutes early, you're late, which, you know, I think you're much safer getting there 10 or even 15 minutes early and expecting your guest, than you are showing up late.

15:54.42
AROB
So if you do have to be late, right?

16:02.76
Host
Percent.

16:03.33
AROB
It happens. You're moving from one thing to the next or traffic gets bad. Try to give them a heads up. "I'm going to be late." If you don't have their phone number, call the restaurant, right? If you're meeting them at a restaurant or you're meeting them at somebody's home, like call and just say, "I'm running a few minutes late." Because then it kind of gives you that grace period to show up late without having them tap their toe and look at their phone and look at their watch and see where the heck you are.

16:29.86
Host
Exactly. Yeah. My personal policy is I would always be in the parking lot at least 15 minutes ahead of the restaurant, 15 minutes for dinner and always be in the lobby five minutes before a meeting time. And that never failed me.

16:39.48
AROB
Yeah.

16:40.08
Host
Like you always want to show that you're respecting their time. Not going to keep them waiting.

16:44.82
AROB
There you go. So then you sit down or you get to your table and I think that's really important to keep your table uncluttered, right? I don't have a purse, but sometimes I often have—well number one, my phone, but you know, I'll have like a portfolio, you know, like a kind of leather-bound folder.

16:54.02
Host
Right.

17:05.78
Host
Yeah.

17:11.30
AROB
A portfolio.

17:11.92
Host
Yeah.

17:12.30
AROB
Where I'll keep my—you know, if we're—if the point of the meeting is an ask, I'll have a proposal or if I have anything I'm going to give them. And so instead of putting that on the table, put it on the floor. I like to lean it against my chair. It's there, I can get to it if I need to, but it's not cluttering up the table.

17:33.48
Host
So let's say you get in the restaurant and maybe you've already been seated, but your dinner companion doesn't show up on time. What's kind of the procedure in that situation?

18:05.94
AROB
Yeah, so if you are on time and your guest is not on time, well, you know, that's not a bad thing, right? Because—I don't know.

18:18.70
AROB
Then you can hold it over their head for the rest of their life that you were on time and they were—that's just good... What do you do?

18:25.22
AROB
Okay. Yeah. So, so that happens, right? You're there on time or you're there early, and you're waiting for your guests, you haven't heard from them and they're not showing up. So I think that it's appropriate to wait 15 minutes, right?

18:39.31
AROB
It's a quarter of an hour and then check in with them, right? It kind of feels obnoxious.

18:44.33
Host
Yeah.

18:45.58
AROB
If they're like three minutes late and you're texting or calling, "Hey, where are you? I'm here at the restaurant," - you know, you could wait. So give it time. Let them get to where they're going, and if they show up 10 minutes late, they're going to come in and say, "Hey, I'm so sorry. Traffic was bad," or whatever.

19:06.66
AROB
Getting a text or call from you immediately is kind of obnoxious. So I avoid that. Just let them get there. If they're not there in 15 minutes, give them a call or send them a text and say, "Just wanted to make sure that we were still on. Are you going to make it?" And then if they say, "Oh yeah, sorry, I totally forgot" - which has happened to me. It's important to confirm your appointments beforehand, but that's another conversation. If they say, "Hey, I totally forgot. Sorry, I'm not going to make it."

19:33.90
AROB
Say, "No problem. No worries. I'm here at the restaurant. I'll grab a drink, but let's reschedule for another time." You don't want to appear angry or put out because this is somebody you still want to develop a relationship with in most cases. If they're not coming, then they're not coming, and you don't need to stay.

19:57.13
Host
Right. So as you're getting to dinner, you're going to be talking to and dealing with the wait staff. Any tips as you lead into the dinner for how you should manage those interactions?

20:07.70
AROB
Yeah. So have you ever been a waiter, friend?

20:10.50
Host
I haven't.

20:11.60
AROB
Ah, yeah. So I was a waiter at two different restaurants - a seafood restaurant and a steakhouse. It was a lot of fun. There were certainly a lot of really hectic, crazy times, but I enjoyed it for the most part.

20:24.28
AROB
It's a lot of work and you've got a lot of things that you're doing and a lot on your mind. You're constantly switching from frantic, get-everything-done mode to calm, put-together mode right in front of your table. Having patience with your waiter or waitress and being courteous is the best thing that you can do.

20:46.69
AROB
Even when things get screwed up, it's not a good look in front of your donors for you to be put out, angry, or frustrated with your waiter, because you never know how they're feeling about that.

21:02.75
AROB
You're going to put yourself in a much better position with them if you maintain calm and courtesy. You can be direct - "Hey, we're waiting for this, wondering if it's still coming" - but don't be obnoxious with your waiter. It's a bad look.

21:19.96
Host
And don't complain about them either, right? That's going to leave a bad taste in the donor's mouth.

21:24.24
Host
They might think, "Oh, they're saying that about this person who's made a small mistake. What are they going to say about me?" So just keep it positive.

21:31.23
AROB
Yep.

21:31.25
Host
Handle situations with grace, like you said there. Great. You mentioned a moment ago about your phone, right? How you might put it underneath your chair.

21:53.10
AROB
Yeah, so my daughter is 15, she has a phone now, and I am constantly telling her not to bring her phone to the dinner table. And she does, and she knows now that she's not supposed to look at it, but it's like she's incapable of going from one room to the next without her phone. So she still brings it.

22:12.97
AROB
That's a rule in our house at the dinner table. You're not to answer your phone, look at it, or look things up. We're here to have a conversation. I'm going to guess that not everybody had that rule, or you are working with people that don't have that rule. And that's fine. Or you had that rule and then you got to college, and now you have your phone all the time. It is what it is.

22:36.43
AROB
At the table when you're meeting with a donor or benefactor, do not be on your phone. I usually put my phone face down if it's on the table, but I don't even like doing that anymore. I put it in my seat, tucked under my leg. If you've got a bag, you can keep it in there. It needs to be invisible to the donor, and you definitely should not be checking it during the meal.

23:06.83
Host
Don't take photos of your food. It's not worth it in this situation, right?

23:11.56
AROB
Yeah, that's right. If you're expecting an urgent call - maybe there's a situation where you're at dinner but you know something is going on at home that you want to be prepared for - then let them know at the front end.

23:23.37
AROB
Say, "Hey, I'm waiting for a call," or "I may get a call. If that happens, I'll step away." If that call comes in, say, "Excuse me, this is the call that I was waiting for. I'm going to step away and take it." Do not answer it at the table. Do not sit there and have that conversation, and don't just answer calls you weren't expecting. Let it go to voicemail unless it's an urgent call that you're expecting, in which case tell them ahead of time that it might come in.

23:53.17
Host
And then keep it brief, right? Don't make them sit at the table for 10 minutes alone waiting for you.

23:56.68
AROB
Yep. Right. Totally.

23:59.24
Host
Excellent. So let's move into a little bit of the table etiquette. If you sit down to a formal dinner, you may all of a sudden see a lot more cutlery and glasses than you're typically used to in your day-to-day life.

24:13.33
Host
What's the approach there?

24:17.19
AROB
Okay, so this is how we set our table for dinner every night with our four kids and our dog running around... No. Yeah, you're right. This is very much a rare situation for most people.

24:31.01
AROB
At a formal dinner, there are a lot of utensils. The basic rule is you start on the outside and work your way in.

24:37.62
Host
Right.

24:37.67
AROB
Utensils for the main course will be closest to the plate. So you work your way from the outside in. That's pretty simple. That'll save you from being embarrassed or having to ask which fork to use, or just grabbing the wrong one and then the wait staff doesn't bring you a replacement.

25:00.08
Host
Exactly. You can Google and find typical formal place settings, what they look like, and what all the different pieces are. In general, if you're going to a formal dinner, they're going to include the cutlery that they expect you to use based on what's on the menu, right?

25:16.91
AROB
That's right.

25:17.51
Host
And so you're going to have forks on the left, knives and spoons on the right. And like you said, start on the outside. Usually closest to the plate, you've got your meat and your salad fork and knife.

25:30.15
Host
And then if there's fish, there'll be a separate fork and knife specifically for fish.

25:35.02
AROB
I did not know that.

25:36.37
AROB
How about that?

25:36.71
Host
And then if there's soup, you'll have a soup spoon. If there's tea being served, you'll have a teaspoon. And then this is something that I have found in researching this that I have never encountered because I live as far from the ocean as possible, basically.

25:50.12
Host
If there are oysters, you may have an oyster fork or you may not.

25:53.22
AROB
Hmm.

25:54.47
Host
And if you don't, that means that the oysters have already been loosened from their shell.

25:59.79
AROB
Okay.

26:00.09
Host
So apparently it's a big no-no to ask for an oyster fork. You should know that if you're served oysters but don't have an oyster fork, it's because they've already been loosened.

26:14.41
AROB
So I love oysters on the half shell, raw oysters. I live close to the ocean, so I get them as often as I can, even though nobody else in my family likes them, so it's pretty rare. The oyster fork is very small, very skinny. If they're serving oysters, the shell is already going to be open. You're not going to need to crack a shell open to eat oysters. The dessert fork and spoon are usually at the top.

26:44.24
AROB
And then if there's a butter knife, that'll be separate.

26:48.80
AROB
So what about when there's like a bowl of rolls on the table and a single butter...

27:00.07
Host
We do cover that later.

27:01.23
AROB
Great. So then cut that out.

27:11.58
Host
Okay. And then the final note here in terms of the layout of your table is you approach glasses the same way that you approach the cutlery.

27:20.05
AROB
Yeah.

27:21.00
Host
They usually... with the exception of your water glass, which is going to be furthest inside right above the knives. And then you start from the outside and work your way in with multiple courses with different beverages, different wines, champagne, whatnot. The glasses there will be laid out from outside to inside.

27:38.71
AROB
Yeah, and I think we're going to talk about courses later, but if it is a multi-course meal, they're going to expect that the staff is going to take the utensils that you have eaten that course with.

27:51.41
AROB
You don't need to lick them off and save them. If they're taking it, it's because there are new utensils that are already at your place setting, or they're going to bring them to your table for the next course.

28:02.35
AROB
So a lot of times, like if they're serving steak or if you've ordered meat that needs to be cut, they'll actually bring you a steak knife when they serve that portion of the meal.

28:13.11
AROB
So you don't need to save your butter knife to cut your steak. They're going to bring you a new one.

28:17.53
Host
Excellent. Before we move in... well, let's move on into one more piece here, which is napkin etiquette. There are a few things you need to know about what to do with your napkin. What are those?

28:26.68
AROB
How to fold it? What are the shapes you can make? Swan...

28:30.40
Host
Exactly.

28:31.70
AROB
Eiffel Tower...

28:31.85
Host
Impress your dinner guests.

28:33.66
AROB
A rose...

28:37.31
AROB
So a napkin is generally going to be either at the seating or even on the plate. There might be a plate there with a napkin in a napkin ring or folded on there.

28:49.38
AROB
So first thing you do when you sit down - we're talking about a cloth napkin, right? - take the cloth napkin, open it up and put it on your lap. What I like to do is I usually keep my napkin on my right leg.

29:08.02
AROB
That way I can reach down and if I get something on my fingers, I can wipe it. I'm not expecting to spill food in my lap, right? But it covers a general portion of my lap while it's still accessible on my right.

29:25.74
Host
Yeah. And, okay.

29:31.13
AROB
Oh, okay. Yeah, fold it in half. Yeah. Okay, go.

29:35.90
Host
Yeah. And you're supposed to kind of follow your host's lead with a napkin, right?

29:39.30
Host
I think in general, you expect to put it on your lap almost right away when you sit down.

29:42.90
Host
But if your host doesn't, if maybe they wait till the food is served, then you should follow their lead and kind of make them feel comfortable. Do it the same way as them.

29:50.83
AROB
Yeah, so basically the napkin rules are: you take it off, you open it up, unfold it, or take the ring off or whatever, fold it, put it on your lap with the fold closest to your waist, and then it stays there the entire meal. If you have to get up...

30:07.72
AROB
...and go to the restroom or take that call, what I usually do is I take it off and I lay it on my seat. And then when I come back, it goes right back on my lap. So pretty simple. You can pick it up to wipe your mouth or your lips or your chin or whatever, wipe your fingers on it. But other than that, it stays in your lap the whole time.

30:26.92
Host
Yeah, and when you get up, you should keep it either on your seat or to the left of your plate to signify to the waitstaff that you're coming back. That is kind of a signal to them.

30:37.13
Host
One extra note there is never use your napkin to blow your nose.

30:40.43
AROB
That's right.

30:40.80
Host
This is something that comes up regularly. If you have to blow your nose, step away, use the restroom and blow your nose there.

30:47.79
Host
And then the final piece here is when your host places their napkin on the table, takes it off their lap, puts it on the table, that's kind of a signal to everybody that the meal is coming to an end. And so you should follow suit there, wrap up, put your napkin up on the table, and be ready to complete the dinner.

31:07.70
AROB
Yeah, there you go. So pretty simple. I think this is part one, right Ren?

31:11.85
Host
Yeah, I think we'll stop here. That will have led up to the meal itself. And so on our next episode, we'll pick back up and talk about all the etiquette during the meal and then at the end as you wrap up the dinner.

31:24.68
AROB
Yeah, so pretty simple. We talked about how to handle that reception, kind of happy hour, when you arrive, what to do with your phone, the cutlery, and napkins. So basically, next we're gonna talk about the meal, but essentially...

31:43.10
AROB
...remember this: there's a lot of things that we talked about that you're probably not going to remember, like what to do with your napkin or which fork to use. Don't get hung up on that. Try to internalize some of this, be observant of your host, and then remember - do no harm, right? If you remain calm, kind of remember the rules of just common courtesy and politeness, and you can make it through a meal pretty easily.

32:10.23
Host
Great. Anything else you want to wrap up with here?

32:15.71
AROB
Nope.

32:15.84
Host
Okay. Perfect. Well, I feel much more equipped to sit down to my next formal dinner.

32:21.73
AROB
Yeah, we're going to enforce these rules with our kids next Thanksgiving, right? Is that like a life goal?

32:29.92
Host
Hey, excellent.

32:32.44
Host
Well, we'll see you back in a couple of weeks and we'll finish up how to handle etiquette through the rest of the meal.

32:37.99
AROB
Perfect. Sounds good.

32:39.41
Host
All right. Thank you.