Learning to Tell Your Story - An Interview with Eva Daniel

In this episode, Andrew chats with Eva Daniel, public speaking coach and founder and owner of The Speak Shop.  Eva and Andrew discuss the importance of improving our public speaking and storytelling abilities.  Eva touches on the mistakes people make in their public speaking, and she offers solutions for improvement.     

Show Notes

Background

Eva was a speech major at Hillsdale College, and after graduation, she worked in radio.  Her radio experience led to a long-term radio show production career at Focus on the Family, and after that, Eva joined Dave Ramsey’s speech writing team.  Though Eva loved her positions at Focus on the Family and with Dave Ramsey, she decided to answer a long-felt call to own her own business. In August 2022, Eva made her entrepreneurial dream come true, and she opened The Speak Shop, her own speech coaching business.   

Life As a Speech Coach

Eva shares her firm belief that the single biggest thing that holds most speakers back is a lack of clear, specific, and actionable feedback.  Most speakers she works with are good speakers, but Eva is able to use her public speaking superpowers to help her clients to go from good to great.  One important thing that Eva highlights is the fact that most speakers believe their biggest challenge is in their delivery, but realistically, the biggest problem is often content related.

Storytelling 

Eva has a tremendous passion for storytelling and helping people tell better stories. Stories are what people remember, and stories compel people to act.  Knowing this, Andrew and Eva discuss how storytelling is especially important to fundraising professionals, and Eva shares strategies for telling more effective and engaging stories.  She’s confident that we all have a story within us that deserves to be shared.   

Following Her Entrepreneurial Dream

Andrew and Eva spend time discussing Eva’s latest pursuit, the opening of her own business, The Speak Shop.  Eva shares how the book The Power of Regret by Daniel Pink greatly influenced her entrepreneurial journey.  She refused to wonder if she would later regret never opening her own business, and thus, she went for it.  Eva describes actions and advice that helped her make her dreams come true.  

Lightning Round

1. If you could fundraise for any organization or cause at any time in history, what would it be?
• Compassion International:  I have a huge passion for world hunger issues, and I love the work Compassion does.  
2. If you could get a donor meeting with anyone living or dead, who would it be?
• Hannah More!  She’s a tremendously neglected woman in British (and world!) history, but she did amazing things in, both as a writer and as a promoter of social change.  
3. Is there enough money out there for every organization that's doing good work?
• Yes. There are so many benefits to giving.  When people give, they want to give more.  There are enough of us to solve all the world’s problems, but we need to be teaching younger generations about the benefits of generosity.    
4. What is one piece of advice that you would give your past self?
• Don’t allow insecurity to make your choices.  
5. Who are 3 people who have most influenced you professionally?
• My husband:  He is such an encourager, and he believes in me even when I don’t believe in myself.  
• Jim Daly:  As the leader of Focus on the Family, Jim is an inspiration.  He is a dynamic leader with a heart for people and passion for his work.  
• Dave Ramsey:  His message and his content impacted my life personally, and his leadership makes you want to work really hard.   
6. What is one fact about you that most people don’t know?
• My childhood was spent making and selling wooden toys and weapons at Renaissance festivals.  
7. What is a book that you would recommend?
• Speak Like Churchill, Stand Like Lincoln by James Humes

Andrew’s Takeaways

So, if nothing else, you probably learned that traveling Renaissance Fair folks are called Rennies. Ha. 

But seriously, I took a lot away from our interview. First, let’s value the importance of good feedback. In her work, Eva listens to speakers and then gives critical commentary on how they can get better. In fundraising, it is super important to find someone who can give you feedback as well. I still remember sitting in a donor meeting with my boss almost 15 years ago. After the meeting, he told me that my body language was terrible, and I seemed absent in the discussion. It was an incredibly valuable learning experience that I only got because he observed me and then gave me good feedback when it was over. This is something that I do on a fairly regular basis with my clients. If we want to be excellent, the first step is identifying our flaws, and sometimes it's just easier when others point them out.

Second, I thought her advice on storytelling was spot on. It can be easy to think that a good story just relays all the facts. But in reality, a good story makes us think or feel something new. Diving into the middle or coming at it from a different angle can be powerful techniques. It’s also important to practice our stories to identify those opportunities to focus on the emotions. I know that this is something that I will focus on in the future. 

And third, Eva’s advice about starting a business and being scrappy, not crappy was great. I think this applies in our nonprofit work as well. Nonprofit organizations are often forced to work on a tight budget, and that means that we have to get creative and do a lot of things ourselves even if it’s not our strength. Her advice on still focusing on excellence and working toward a place where you can hire someone more qualified to help is good advice. I encourage you to look at the things that you do but don’t really do well and see how you can learn to do it better or find someone to take it over. Donors appreciate excellence, and being more mindful of this will only help you get better and raise more money. 

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

03:11.63

aggierobison

Well howdy everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Petrus Development Show. I am thrilled that you're with us here today. I have got a special guest. Eva Daniel is the founder and owner of The Speak Shop but Eva has been in the world of content production speech writing speech coaching for many years and she is an expert in this area and we've actually got her lineup to present at the at RAISE23, the Catholic Fundraising Conference in June of 2023 so we're very excited about having Eva at the conference, but I'm very excited about having her on the podcast today. So Eva. Thanks so much for being here. Yeah, absolutely so we usually start these episodes just with an introduction. Tell us a little bit about your background. What has your…

03:46.23

Eva Daniel 

Thanks for inviting me.

03:56.88

aggierobison

…sort of life career education been like to get you to this point where you are the founder and owner of The Speak Shop?

04:04.39

Eva Daniel 

Yeah, thanks so much. So it has been a journey. I jokingly say that I think I'm one of the only people I know that actually used my college degree in the field that I studied and so I was actually a speech major in college. That's actually a thing um and the college I attended hillsdale college. It was a lot of history of rhetoric and more of you know, history of public address and I'm a history nerd. So I really enjoyed that and so I but during college I got involved in radio I was actually able to be a news anchor for a couple years of college which was very fun. That's going to sound really glamorous to everyone listening.

04:35.49

aggierobison

Nice.

04:41.45

Eva Daniel 

I Went to college in a really small town I mean like really small and so it's not quite as impressive as it sounds but it was just a great experience and I feel I can honestly say I fell in love with radio and I was like I want to I want to stay in radio forever and I did for a long time. So after I graduated I got a job in traffic coordination which is not the flying in airplanes giving traffic reports. It's the ad placements though. It's not.. It's not the sexy side of what when you think of traffic. Um, but so I was in radio for a couple years that wasn't a great fit for that specific job and then I got a position as an assistant producer at Focus on the Family…

05:06.45

aggierobison

Ah, okay.

05:19.24

Eva Daniel 

…For their daily radio broadcast, I was there almost eleven years and worked my way up through the ranks and was a senior producer for that broadcast and I loved it and since I know so many people of your listeners are in that fundraising space. You know, working in the nonprofit world. You spend a lot of time talking about all the things you'll do if you ever have money. It feels like um and so just lots of experience even just writing for that show of fundraising and making compelling asks at the end of our broadcast but during that season I just got to meet so many hundreds of…

05:55.82

Eva Daniel 

…Authors and speakers and pastors and it is just such an incredible opportunity to help people share their stories and their messages with the world. I just loved radio and podcasting and thought I would be there for in some ways forever.

06:11.41

Eva Daniel 

And that whole industry changed a lot. I mean along the way I felt like it went from radio producer to audio producer as just podcasting took off. I ah in 2008 I had something approach me if I could freelance produce their podcast.

06:18.11

aggierobison

Yeah.

06:26.57

Eva Daniel 

And I had no idea what a podcast was. I had to Google it. It was so new back in 2008 but just love that love that speaking space and podcasting space and then in 2019 if I knew it was just time for a change. We'd been feeling stirring…

06:44.84

Eva Daniel 

…Just on our hearts till I do something new and so in 2019 we moved from Colorado down to Nashville Tennessee and was a speechwriter for Dave Ramsey for a few years and his team of personalities which was just so fun and I learned so much about delivery and live events and and just really coordinated really well with everything I had studied and done in the past and love the experience. But as I think a lot of entrepreneurs can relate to I'd kind of been having this dream and this wrestling with wanting to start my own thing since my late 20’s and so in August of 2022, I decided to make the plunge and here I am a few months into doing my own business which is speech coaching and working with people to just really learn how to tell their stories and give messages in a more compelling way.

07:34.58

aggierobison

That is awesome and I actually have a lot of like intersections with your story. So my parents they had like a small group of pair other parents and families and when I was younger I don't know elementary middle school. We used to. Have this like monthly gathering of all the families and we would watch Dr James Dobson videos um on you know, as a family and then we'd like to discuss it and everything and those are you know? Dr. James Hobson is, you know, real big with Focus on the Family. Obviously so I got really involved with um.

08:10.43

aggierobison

Or you know I just remember that and then talk about podcasting. Um the first podcast that I remember listening to was re like rebroadcasts or I guess you know they would take the audio from the radio of Npr's shows wait wait don't tell me. And then there was like another one that was ah was it is a Peter Sagal and at that time I would listen when I ran and you had to download them to your computer and then I plug my mp 3 player into the computer to download him to the mp 3 player and if I didn't go and like run that night

08:44.18

aggierobison

And you know and then they sat on my mp 3 then they were a week old and I was like well I got to go get the new one it so that I have I go and download the new. Ah, it's ah we're in a much different space as far as podcasting availability now. So that's pretty funny.

08:54.90

Eva Daniel 

Well we are you know one thing I think a lot of people face is. There's so many podcasts now that it can almost be overwhelming because we all have a dozen friends or 2000 friends that have a podcast and it's easy to get behind even now.

08:58.81

aggierobison

Right? yeah.

09:09.89

Eva Daniel 

Even now that they're automatically downloaded to our phones and.

09:12.88

aggierobison

Yes, no doubt and we're happy that you're listening to this podcast and hopefully you're going to take something away that will help you in your work today. So um, so tell us a little bit about life as a speechwriter and as a coach because I know that's what you've been doing for other people and now you're ah you know professionally for for Dave Ramsey and his crew and now you're doing it for um, tell us kind of like who your who your clients are what what the process is generally when you start working with them and just so I should say and share with the audience that you and I have been working together to help me sort of be a better ah speaker and fine tune my message and my delivery and all of that. So other than me, what are some of your other clients like and and what are some of the issues that you see them come in with that you try to help them with.

10:01.89

Eva Daniel 

Yeah I have found that one of the biggest things. Maybe even the biggest thing holding most speakers back or people that want to just improve in their communication is most people have never received clear and specific and actionable feedback on their speaking and most of the people I work with I Always say that my ideal client is somebody who is already good. They're already out there. They're already regularly speaking, maybe they already even have a podcast but they haven't necessarily made that leap from good to great.

10:22.81

aggierobison

Um.

10:38.32

Eva Daniel 

And the reason why is because they've never gotten that really like tangible feedback. So what happens a lot of times is someone will get done speaking and the kind of feedback they get if they get any So the worst scenario is they get no feedback. But if they do get feedback a lot of times what happens is people will say something like oh that was so great.

10:50.18

aggierobison

A.

10:58.26

Eva Daniel 

I just loved your message and you think well I just talked for 60 minutes - what was so great or it'll be or you have the inkling or that maybe you could be better but you're not exactly sure how or somebody might give if it's you know, negative feedback. It might be something like oh be great if you could have more humor and then you think well what does that mean I mean I was funny or maybe I didn't think I was funny but I don't know how to incorporate it so I ah feel like my superpower is I come in and I tell people hey you're kind of dry at the 17 to 20 minute mark how could we add some humor? Maybe it could be something like this or the story that you have at the 28 minute mark would actually make a great opening. But so let's start with that. But let's start your story in a different spot and I have a really big passion for storytelling and helping people tell better stories. I believe that stories are really what shape. Our culture and we all have a story within us that deserves to be shared but a lot of times people just have never really even thought through how they're telling the stories that they have and so that's a really big big patch and so you know to answer one of your the facets of your question the facets of your question was just. You know what all do I do and what all do I help it really does depend on the client. You know a lot of the reason why people struggle when it comes to public speaking is they think it's delivery related but a lot of times I find just digging in a little bit is content related. It's it's really hard to deliver average or even.

12:24.64

aggierobison

Yeah.

12:30.60

Eva Daniel 

Not great content compelling you know like it's it's both sides. It's both sides of the coin. So one side is content. You need to have really good compelling content and then there is the delivery side of how do you take that content and deliver it in a way that's engaging and brings your audience into what you're sharing?

12:48.29

aggierobison

Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense and there's actually you know a lot of parallels between what you're saying and just in fundraising right? So in fundraising there is in some ways there is this immediate feedback loop right? So if a development director sits down with you know Mary and John and says you know you care passionately about this organization, would you please consider a gift of $1000 to help us and there you know they say yes they say no right? That's like immediate feedback but in your mind but there's you know there's no real way to know like can I do that delivery better? Did I prepare my ask better? Did we you know sort of do that process a little bit better and a lot of what we do in the work with Petrus and with our clients is we go on meetings we go on donor calls with our clients and it's that you know like. You know we have the meeting and then afterwards I've had so many conversations in the car. You know when they say oh I think that went really well it did it did. But what are some ways that you think we can get better right? And so it's just like this you know having somebody there that can just help dissect what you did and how it went and almost kind of go beyond that like immediate feedback of yes I'll give you the gift or no I won't.

14:03.11

Eva Daniel 

Well and one of the things even within that I found on the feedback piece is especially you know I work with a lot of execs or CEOs and there's this level of there's a chance that people on your team may or may not feel the freedom to give you feedback because into the day you you are their boss. Um, and you do you know control their paycheck. So How honest they're going to be, hopefully you know every leader listening that speaks regularly they have created that culture of trust where everyone on their team feels that openness and that freedom to give feedback. But what I find is that it's not always the case. And then also um, you know, just within the feedback loop sometimes people just if you don't know how to give feedback it sounds like your team does. But if you don't know how to give feedback to individuals it's not really feedback. It's just comments. So having clear things is really what drives people forward.

14:58.76

aggierobison

Yeah I agree with you completely and you said something else that I want to dive into a little bit and you talked about stories and how stories are really what compel people and what you know from a public speaking standpoint. That's a lot of what they're going to remember is the stories and then how the lesson or the application or the message is relayed through that story and it's very similar in fundraising right? like I have some stories that I have literally been saying for 17 years because they are you know as part of my you know part of my history part of my journey as a fundraiser. And you know that I have a message behind them that I'm trying to relay to the donors right? or to you know other other development officers or whoever it is um but you said earlier some people don't know how to tell really good stories. So what is it about. Um, what is it about storytelling that you can do right? And what is it about storytelling that you can do wrong? that some of our listeners might not even be aware. They're doing but they could make it better.

16:01.92

Eva Daniel 

So I think one of the biggest things that happens is we either share way too many details or not enough details. You know that's often what happens in storytelling and another thing that happens is that one of the biggest mistakes is when we go to tell stories we just have this natural tendency in our own life to tell our stories in a very linear fashion a happened and then B happened and then C happened and then D happened and we go through this linear progression. But if you think about any of your favorite movies that you have seen, very few movies start in a linear fashion.

16:36.29

aggierobison

Right.

16:38.55

Eva Daniel 

Most of them. You know we're jumping right on with you know Jason Bourne and we don't know where we are and what country we are and what's happening and it dives right in on the center of the action and so a lot of times, especially with public speaking you know, novels or writing can be a little different Maybe we do need that linear progression but a lot of times with our speaking we need to dive right into the story. And then backtrack the relevant details and fill in the pieces that are needed within that as far as how to tell stories better. Ah I've noticed a lot of times we get very factual in our stories again back with that this happened and then this happened but we don't really think through 2 crucial elements and one of those is when this thing happened what did it make you think? and the second one is what did it make you feel? because the thinking and the feeling are what really add the dimension to storytellings. So for example I could tell you last October I welcomed my fourth child into our family.

17:37.13

Eva Daniel 

And it was a safe and healthy delivery. Okay, well that's great. You know we know a little bit about you but that's not a story that's some facts that I shared but if I for example, were to say last October I welcomed my fourth child a total surprise to our family into you know and I had a safe and healthy delivery and I remember being in that hospital room. And thinking to myself my life will never be the same again and I remember feeling gratitude I wasn't expecting this pregnancy but I was so thankful as I stared into his chubby little face and newborn hands. You know this is just me thinking on the fly but pulling in that thinking and that feeling starts to create it and make it into a story. And then I always tell people too just even if you don't use them all because it can vector. You don't want too many details. But if you think through your 5 senses, if you just take the story that you're sharing and think okay just running through my 5 senses when this thing happened, what did I think and what did I feel? And then go through the 5 senses. What did I see, what did I taste, what did I hear, what did I um, you know can I even remember all 5 since it's smell. Thank you.

18:46.88

Eva Daniel 

You know and go through those. So even back to my you know my brief little analogy about bringing a fourth kid if I were to take that story and go oh well I remember the hospital room had no windows and thinking this or I remember the smell of um. The newborn the smell of my newborn child's head or you know like so if I was to create that into a story just starting threading through all of those elements and so you know that sounds a little overwhelming you think well I'm sharing four stories in a top. You know, in a presentation or a talk. Well just. Select one of those stories out. Maybe it's going to be your open or maybe it's gonna be your close and that's true. Even if it's not your story. Maybe you're giving a presentation about your organization and you're trying to get people to fundraise to, you know, alleviate world hunger issues. Well what would it look like to take 1 story of 1 person that your company impacted and pulling through those threads to really create it into a more compelling narrative.

19:45.71

aggierobison

Yeah I think that's that I mean everything you're saying I agree with right? Um, the other side of it and you know when you're preparing for a presentation right? You can be kind of in control of what you're going to say right? That's that content piece right. But I know some of the other work that you do is to help people prepare, maybe to be on a speaking panel right? where there might be questions or there might be. You know you don't exactly know where it's going to go and so in a way that's another similarity to being like in a donor meeting right? You don't know what the donor is going to say you don't know…

20:18.77

aggierobison

…How they're going to react and so you want to be prepared and so it's almost like you know going back to my so my situation like I have I don't know what the number would be let's if I thought about it hard I could figure it all out but probably 8 to 10 stories that you know are kind of throughout my career that I can respond in just about any situation. And um, does it is it helpful from your standpoint for a speaker ever whether they're speaking on a panel whether they're you know, preparing for a q and a to sort of have some of those stories in their mind that they can sort of, you know, shuffle through really quickly. Um, and then how do you help people sort of prepare for those stories and maybe ah off the cuff situations.

20:59.20

Eva Daniel 

Yeah that's great. So to answer your question. Yes I think it's very helpful to have those stories that you've really dialed in that you can return to maybe you know 3 to 5 or 6 or whatever makes sense and one of the things about storytelling too is making sure that every story you share has a point. Um and you know what was the point. What was the point. 

21:33.52

Eva Daniel 

You say a lot of things to your clients that you don't apply and that's one of them is having a lot of details to a story. Um, but I think I do think about your panel question. You know one thing to keep in mind because most people listening you're probably more likely to be invited to be on a panel than to be delivering the keynote or at some point in your professional career There's a very good chance. You're going to be invited to be on a panel and there is that level of impromptu off the cuff. You don't necessarily know where the conversation is going to flow but having some of those stories that you can pull from that you know you're going to be able to draw from. Now 1 thing I always tell people to think about is it's a concept I learned in college and might all mean to explain as clearly as possible, but it's story mapping so you put your story at the center and then you just think of what are all the different themes that. Come out from that story. So for example I mean just pick a very I have a 4 year old daughter so apologies to anybody who doesn't but I'll just pick the story of Cinderella if you look at the cinder story of Cinderella. Well what is that about and you could say well that story is about happily ever after and dreams coming true. You can totally say that that's what that story's about. But if you were to spend just 10 to 15 minutes and think about what are the other themes within that story. Well, you could say that story is really about friendship because if it hadn't been for those mice that she would never have gotten out of that locked room and been able to reveal that she was Cinderella.

23:03.71

Eva Daniel 

Or you could say that that story is about a father's misguided love for his daughter because he clearly married this woman he was trying to help his daughter by remarrying but the stepmother wasn't a good person so we could go on for a while about Cinderella I'll you know refrain from that next time maybe will do frozen. But if you were to…

23:21.49

Eva Daniel 

…Just put one of your stories in this center and think what are all the themes of this story and no matter what they ask me? How could I get back to this core story that I want to share and it's a really good exercise to take through those 3 5 6 pocket stories ideas you have and just literally draw a circle in a piece of paper put that story in the center and just. Make lines off and say what is a story about and how no matter what they ask me can I get back talking about. Maybe it's a personal story. Maybe it's a story for your organization to be able to loop it back in a way that makes sense in a compelling way.

23:55.48

aggierobison

Yeah, and I think that's excellent advice and and certainly you know like I said I have you know, kind of my 8 core stories and I've told them all you know they're everything from being in a plane crash to you know, an ask that I had of ah a recent college graduate and you know and kind of everything in between. But. It's almost like I've I'm so familiar with them and I've thought about them in those ways that you can I could tell the same story and approach it from a different angle and um, that's one of my favorite things just as ah, you know, sort of ah, an observer or a consumer of public speaking. That's one of my favorite things that I hear. Speakers do whether it's the priests in their homily on Sunday whether it's you know a speaker on Youtube or whatever is to take a story that maybe we've all heard or familiar with and and consider that same story from an alternate perspective right? And um I think that's really powerful example that I use all the time is…

24:52.34

aggierobison

Um, sorry, 1 example that I use all the time is the story from a generosity standpoint is the story of Jesus feeding the 5000 right? and we've heard that story you know in in ah in church you know a thousand times maybe over our life. But when you look at it from the standpoint of the young boy and you know he was in a position where he brought 5 fish and 2 loaves to probably feed himself, maybe his brothers his sisters his parents and here he is offering that food to Jesus and. Then what did Jesus turn around and do with it. He met he multiplied it for everybody and you know what was the emotion? What was the thought process of that little boy and you know is his little sister like what do you do give away our food. You don't like but you just sort of flip the same story and all of a sudden you can have a really really different narrative and a different…

25:46.22

aggierobison

…different message and I think that when speakers can do that and when fundraisers and other people that are engaging in this kind of work can do that. It's just a really powerful message and it's certainly something that your audience or your individual you're talking to is going to remember in a powerful way.

26:01.30

Eva Daniel 

Exactly I think a lot of times just stories that we've all heard a lot of times can kind of get a little tired so even in that case I've I've shared with a pastor before what if you gave that story from the Mom's perspective of like. You know, maybe the mom wasn't perfect, but at least she packed lunch. You know like and again' taking it from a parent perspective but I love what you're sharing there. Just yeah, finding a different angle, a different story from you know, different character's angle of the truth of what you're trying to share.

26:35.33

aggierobison

Um, great. So I think that this is fantastic and I really um, think that there's a lot of,I love the story mapping and you know talking about the 5 senses when you're telling a story and um, just this idea of you know if we want to get better at something. The most powerful way we can get better is to find somebody that can offer us really valuable feedback. I mean those are very clear ways that I think are applicable in public speaking. But also you know in the world of fundraising for those of you know folks who want to get better at this craft and develop this skill of fundraising. Um I want to switch gears a little bit because we have some people that listen to this show that are entrepreneurs and maybe they've started a nonprofit or maybe they are you know, thinking about you know, kind of going out on their own in some way shape or form. But that's an experience that you have recently had. You just said August 2022 very recently left your job and are starting your own business. So what has that and you kind of mentioned earlier. You've had this longing right? But it's a difference between having this longing to do something and then actually doing it right? So what was the discernment process and the decision making process to actually make that shift like? And then how has it been early on in that journey.

27:49.89

Eva Daniel 

Oh yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot here so I did mention that I you know I had a passion to start my own businesses in my late twenties and I think a lot of times when people think of starting their own business as like maybe they're really like angry at their workplace or they're fed up or whatever and…

28:09.73

Eva Daniel 

…1 thing that made it really hard for me was I actually loved my job. It had been a dream to work for Dave Ramsey for a really long time and 1 reason it took me as long to jump as it was was I was I love the people I work with and I love the work that I did um but…

28:12.10

aggierobison

Yeah, yeah.

28:26.80

Eva Daniel 

…I think that it it you realize along the way that there's this element. What are you going to regret more in your life? I read this really poignant book in my life this year called The Power of Regret by Daniel Pink. I don't know, have you gotten to read that one yet?

28:41.35

aggierobison

I've read what's his other book time lot and not minutes or seconds or Daniel Pink I know I've read. But yeah, haven't read that one. No.

28:43.64

Eva Daniel 

Yeah, he's written some great books. Well I read this book earlier this year and in the book he did this big survey that I think 18000 people filled out about their greatest life regret and maybe it's surprising. Maybe it's unsurprising to your listeners but the biggest regret people had was over the things that they did not do. It wasn't necessarily the actions that they had taken but more often it was the things that they'd always wanted to do that they'd never had the courage to do. I read that in spring of this year and I'd already been mulling over I'd kind of set the goal for the year of like this is the year I think this a year that I mean I'll quit and launch my own business and reading that book was just sort of like I don't know just sort of like it just added to it where it's like yeah, it's it's a time I'm going to regret if I don't if I don't go for it. Um, and so I did and here we are, you know I think one of the most overwhelming parts for me has been a lot of people talk about like oh who is your ideal client and you've got to target all of your messaging and all of your things to that person. Honestly I'm still figuring that out because I love working with…

30:00.46

Eva Daniel 

…Kind of a range of people. Um, and so that's been one of the things that I'm just you know wrestling through and figuring out like ok what do I really want this to be and how much do I balance my own dreams of speaking and writing in combination with helping other people and what does that look like and. 1 thing I think that people don't tell you enough before you launch as an entrepreneur is just how much time that seemingly simple things take like if you've never done them before so something as simple as invoicing on Quickbooks and it's like I don't. I don't know how to do that or creating. You know you take it. You know you just kind of take for granted when you work at a company that there's writers or designers or marketers and you realize very quickly becoming an entrepreneur that either you're going to have to hire somebody to do those things. You're going to have to figure out how to do them yourself and so one of my mantras has been be scrappy. not crappy be scrappy not crappy and so I'm trying to you know be as scrappy as I can learn the things that I can but also realizing down the line balancing.

31:11.68

Eva Daniel 

Being my own bookkeeper and some of those things you know I'm going to hire kind of as soon as I can but it's fun and it's wild I was given really good advice that I would pass along to anybody in your audience that is thinking about maybe making that jump because advice given to me that I thought was really good. Is you know. Kind of a catalyst moment can be started as a side hustle. First of all start as a side hustle and make sure you think you could actually make money at this because we all have dreams in our hearts products services but make sure that you actually enjoy doing it on the side before you launch. And then not only doing the side hustle but I was given the very good advice that when you're side hustle you look up and your side hustle is making around half of your income. That's a pretty good indicator that you could make the jump and go for it and you could probably supplement all of your income and so in may I had one month and was kind of a little bit of month but where I hit half of half of my salary at my day job I thought ok maybe it's not as much of a track record as you should have but I had one month so so we're and now're now we're gonna go for it. Ah, but it is fun and it's wild and 1 thing I have been amazed by is people's…

32:14.00

aggierobison

No oh man now I have to I'm committed. Ah.

32:26.69

Eva Daniel 

…Kindness and their willingness to help people starting out. Ah, Linkedin has just been a great resource for me personally of people just giving great book recommendations or encouragement or tagging me on posts of people that they think could use speech coaching services and. So I would say for anyone listening that feels like they have that stirring and that burning go for it. I mean in the worst case scenario you are hireable. You can work somewhere else if six months or a year from now it doesn't it doesn't work out but I don't think you'll regret. Having gone for it and tried it.

33:01.82

aggierobison

Yeah I think that's great advice. All of it. You know the the started as a side hustle be scrappy, not crappy. It's interesting. Then you know the world in 2022. There's so many resources out there online right? So you know when a couple of years ago um I helped my daughter when she was actually in first grade we wrote a book together and it was you know, just a little. We sat at the dining room table when we wrote a 6 chapter book called the adventures of Annabelle and Nora the terrible Shark and um and you know that was that was like where it lived you know is on our dining room table and she took it to her class and she illustrated well.

33:41.45

aggierobison

Through using websites like fiverr. Um through I think upwork you know I found an illustrator who lived in Eastern Europe I found ah an editor who was ah, an elementary school teacher in Kansas you know my wife is a graphic designer so she did the layout herself but it was like you know wait a minute. This thing that we think is so complicated you know publishing a book it. It actually is doable. You know and and you have these resources and you have these people and you know total all in cost for us were you know, probably about $300 you know on the illustrations or you know or whatever it was and so anyways, um, it. There are so many resources out there for people and you don't have to be the master of every piece of running your business as you're saying you want to understand how to do it. But at some point you know you can find somebody who can help you with this area and do it 10 times faster than you could end 10 times better.

34:34.17

Eva Daniel 

Or maybe a thousand times better based on my canva designs that I've been able to pull out.

34:35.47

aggierobison

Um, that can make you more successful. Okay, okay, yeah, my ah my wife is a graphic designer like I said and you know she went to school and studied this and got really good at it and so every now and then I'll put something together on canva on senator and she's like Andrew this is terrible.

34:53.79

aggierobison

And I'm like, it's not terrible. She goes no but okay, it's not terrible but it only took me 3 hours she was like I could have done. You know this 10 times better and you know 12 minutes I'm like okay fine I'll just let you do it from now on. It's ah ah yeah, but well very cool. Well um I ah.

35:12.83

aggierobison

Certainly do appreciate. You know you sharing about your journey and you know, kind of what um what that discernment I think that's you know, ah a place that a lot of our um, a lot of fundraisers are at you know at the end of the day very entrepreneurial and you know you have to be creative and coming up with solutions to raise money and sometimes that leads to wanting to. Um, you know, do something on your own and or do something you know with a partner or or whatever it might be and so um I think that you know your story is probably probably pretty encouraging for some folks out there and just those resources I have also found Linkedin to just be a really fantastic place. Um. I when they did their ipo like whatever you know twelve years ago I bought 3 shares and then it tanked immediately and I sold them and yeah, so at that now I'm like oh I could have retired but I probably wouldn't have retired. But yeah.

35:58.24

Eva Daniel 

Oh oh, no, well. Ah it it linked Linkedin is such a wild environment too because I had been on the platform since 2008 when my boss mandated we all get on it.

36:11.83

aggierobison

Yeah.

36:14.26

Eva Daniel 

And it was one of those you know I'd get those emails of like notification requests or whatever here or there and I had never even really posted until this year and what prompted that was my Facebook was hacked and I lost my account after being on Facebook for 16 years it was never recovered I mean I submitted my id I did all the things.

36:26.89

aggierobison

Oh my gosh.

36:33.97

Eva Daniel 

Never got it back and I got angry at Facebook and I kind of looked over at that wait when did Linkedin become this platform of social sharing and content and it felt like it transformed overnight and one of the best parts has just been meeting great people like you on there who I would never…

36:39.55

aggierobison

Yeah, yeah.

36:48.23

aggierobison

Um, right? yeah.

36:49.86

Eva Daniel 

…Met otherwise you know so it's just you know and obviously people treat their Facebook and you know Instagram and those platforms differently but I usually don't those are more personal I'm not like just like friending whoever where Linkedin is a great opportunity to just network and meet people.

37:01.98

aggierobison

Yeah, perfect and speaking of meeting people you are I mentioned at the beginning but you're going to be speaking at our Petrus conference RAISE23 the catholic fundraising conference in June of 2023 and we're excited to have you. So maybe you can give just a little bit of a sneak peek about what. You might be covering in that talk and what people can get out of it to be better at their jobs.

37:27.21

Eva Daniel 

Yes, I'm so excited to speak at the conference and so I'll be sharing the 3 secrets that the pros use. Um I've worked like I said with a lot of big speakers that you know make upwards of. Up all the way up to 250 grand for a speaking gig. So I'm going to share a few of the secrets that I see the pros do on content creation and on delivery and also on just truly knowing who your audience is but I'm also. Excited for the content because not just the main stage keynote I think the principles and the public speaking elements can apply to the person even in those 1 on 1 interactions with donors or in small groups as well. So that's what I'll be sharing.

38:06.31

aggierobison

Awesome! We’re excited and if you're listening and you want to learn more you can go to petrisdevelopment.com/raise23 we're going to be in Louisville Kentucky not too far from you in Nashville June 19 through 21

38:17.13

Eva Daniel 

I think I think they say it little lowell all all you've got to work on your pronunciation I just think I still say it wrong. But I'm pretty sure it's Loville lol.

38:24.88

aggierobison

We were. We were on a call and a number a member of our team I won't I won't say who it was but she literally said Louisville and I was like oh my god you you can't you can't do like I may not be saying it perfect but I know it's not Lewisville she goes I be quiet Andrew oh sorry I so kind of write her up. But…

38:44.67

aggierobison

Um, cool, well excited to have you there looking forward to it and so and thank you for sharing here. So before we wrap up, let's do our lightning round questions, sound good? Can't wait great all right question number 1

38:56.40

Eva Daniel 

Ah, can't wait. Can't wait. Excited.

39:02.17

aggierobison

If you could fundraise for any organization or cause at any point in history, what would it be?

39:06.92

Eva Daniel 

Compassion International I have always had a huge passion for world hunger issues and I just love the work that Compassion does after having lived in Colorado springs for a decade. I know so many people that work there and they just do such incredible work of alleviating world hunger.

39:20.72

aggierobison

Yeah, that's awesome. Have you ever traveled overseas?

39:26.18

Eva Daniel 

I have traveled overseas which is probably why that's also a passion point as well. Um, have not traveled with Compassion or anything. But um, yeah I've traveled overseas and I think when you see true poverty. It makes you realize just how…

39:39.91

Eva Daniel 

…Wealthy and blessed we all are here in the United States

39:41.00

aggierobison

Yeah, for sure question number 2 if you could get a donor meeting with anyone in the world living or dead who would it be?

39:49.75

Eva Daniel 

Hannah Moore do you know who, do you know who that is? it's okay if you don't okay so I was hoping I'd surprise you with that one and some other guest hasn't said it so Hannah Moore was alive kind of late seventeen hundreds to mid eighteen hundreds in great Britain. And she was an extremely influential player and eradicating slavery from great Britain and if you're not aware William Wilberforce and everything that happened in great Britain really paved the way for what we were able to do in America but Hannah Moore is just this fascinating woman from history. So she was a writer and during her heyday she was very popular. She was a very popular writer her works outsold Jane Austen's 10 to one and she was really the first person the way that she…

40:38.40

aggierobison

Um, wow.

40:43.50

Eva Daniel 

…Um, wrote she was really one of the first people in history that was able to share the stories and the images of what was happening with say the women and the children within this within slavery and really bring a voice and a storytelling narrative to that and…

41:00.22

Eva Daniel 

…But what was so amazing about her work was that she had this ability to be able to impact the very, very wealthy but she was also very aware and passionate that to create social change. You. Also you had to educate the masses in general and so she had. At that point in Great Britain, there's a lot of child laborers and kids that weren't attending school so she even created this entire but a lot of those labor factories weren't able to um they didn't work on Sunday so she created this whole Sunday school concept truly schooling the poor children in Great Britain and created this…

41:30.94

aggierobison

Wow.

41:34.88

Eva Daniel 

…Massive social movement. Um, and I feel like she's one of those most neglected women from history but just has an amazing story. So I would love to sit down with her because obviously incredible writer. But then just her ability to really produce and promote social change and a lot of people say that what William Wilberforce was able to accomplish would never have been able to have occurred without Hannah Moore but she's one of those sort of forgotten women and voices from history. So I was down with her and now you're going to want to go researcher after this I'm sure too.

42:02.53

aggierobison

I I am this sounds like an amazing woman and it kind of in a way reminds me of Upton Sinclaire's book the jungle right? How it sort of was a story was a novel but it shined a light on what was it the meat packing industry and sort of the you know the terrible labor.

42:21.67

aggierobison

Um, conditions there and you know how we can impact you know in some people we have you know people people have a gift of storytelling. How can you use that gift of storytelling and writing and to really you know shine a light on things that.

42:36.45

Eva Daniel 

Wow and one tiny little aside 10 She wrote a pamphlet that I think I heard like read that 2000000 copies of it circulated around and if you think back to like 1830 s 1840 s I mean.

42:36.87

aggierobison

Need to be changed and need to be fixed in our world and our society So super cool.

42:51.25

aggierobison

You right? Yeah well writers you die? Yeah good called Hannah Moreore I'm gonna look her up question number 3

42:52.21

Eva Daniel 

That's a lot That's a very prolific, very prolific. So yeah, writing and I guess I Love the story too Is you know, the truth that writers can change the world.

43:08.87

aggierobison

Is there enough money out there for every organization that's doing good work? Why do you say that?

43:10.49

Eva Daniel 

Yes I think that if Elon Musk has $44000000000 to buy Twitter that there's probably plenty of other money to go around but no seriously I I do think there is I think maybe some of it is teaching that. Benefits in the aspect of generosity. Especially the younger generations I do think that's a component of it. But I think that there's so many benefits to giving that when people give they want to give more and that there's enough of us to solve all the world's problems.

43:44.97

aggierobison

Absolutely I love question number 4 if you could go back in time and offer yourself one piece of advice. What would it be?

43:54.15

Eva Daniel 

Um, don't allow insecurity to make your choices.

43:56.51

aggierobison

Yeah I think that's a big one and Insecurity leads to fear and fear is what motivates or drives a lot of our decision or indecision in life. Yeah, great.

44:11.50

Eva Daniel 

Greed.

44:13.94

aggierobison

Question number 5 who are 3 people who have most influenced your professional development?

44:17.20

Eva Daniel 

Yeah I would definitely shout out to my husband Jacob he has just been such an encourager and has been. believing in me and believing in the things that I can do even when I haven't been able to believe in myself over the years and so he would definitely be 1 and then I mentioned that I work out focus on the family and Jim Daly of course is the CEO of the company and the host of the broadcast and. It was the first time you know I was keep in mind I started there in my mid 20 s just somebody who is such such a dynamic He's just such a dynamic incredible leader has such a good sense of humor and such a heart for people and just a passion for his work and so that was really inspirational the entire time I work there and still is. And then I would say Dave Ramsey his message and his content really impacted my life personally and then just his own leadership is just again. Um, he's the kind of person that makes you want to work really hard just because. You appreciate so much who he is and how he leads so I'd say that 3 of them were probably the most impact on me personally.

45:26.70

aggierobison

Very super super cool were you, was it your idea to give him a giant pair of scissors and cut credit cards up on stage because…

45:32.51

Eva Daniel 

No I mean I would you know that was before that was before my time but now when I work with speakers I Think oh what could be like what could be the scissors. You know like what the what could be something interesting on this stage or prop because props can be used effectively. That's just goes to show it.

45:44.89

aggierobison

Ah, yeah, really? yeah well I cheryl and I went to a ah Dave Ramsey presentation in San Antonio Texas is on a gloomy gray rainy cold morning in probably April of. Oh that be 2012 and she was not on board and even like throughout it. You know he's people are screaming I'm debt free. You know he's cutting scissors and she's like oh my god this is so over the top. But the drive back she was like okay yes.

46:11.60

Eva Daniel 

Um.

46:16.46

aggierobison

Over the top. Yes, but if your point is the content is good, the message good. Yes, and so we went back and signed up for financial peace and did our cash envelopes and it transformed the way we approached budgeting in our family. So certainly a big thing. Yeah, um, great question number 6

46:17.76

Eva Daniel 

Um.

46:27.85

Eva Daniel 

Oh that's awesome.

46:35.80

aggierobison

What is something interesting about you that people may or may not know?

46:37.36

Eva Daniel 

So my childhood was spent making and selling wooden weapons and then selling them at renaissance festivals. So my parents are entrepreneurs and for forty years they made wooden toys. Selling them at renaissance festivals. So like I mean we're ty on like the drumstick you know eating Drumstick Jousting renaissance festivals so my childhood was spent I mean my childhood was literally spent on routers and sanders and glowing jewels on swords and making popguns.

46:58.59

aggierobison

Yeah, I'm very familiar with the Renaissance festival. Yeah.

47:10.32

Eva Daniel 

You know silk screening, you know dragon designs on popkins and then weekends were spent dressing up in Renaissance Garbs selling toys. Um, so. Man if you can overcome that childhood you can over of anything. Ah, but yeah, so that's one of those things that I obviously of my friends you know, personal friends and college people, but I'm not posting. Pictures of me in renaissance garb from my childhood on Linkedin. Although maybe I should maybe go viral I don't know I haven't had anything go viral yet. Maybe this is my moment.

47:37.36

aggierobison

Ah, yeah, really please tell me that your wedding somehow incorporated chain mail or like a suit of armor.

47:44.53

Eva Daniel 

Oh ah, no, you know it's actually that's actually it's actually really funny because my husband of course had never attended a renaissance festival to I mean they're weird like what is happening here but ah know.

47:52.85

aggierobison

Oh I love them I we there's 1 right by our house are not too far and we grew up going to him and they're fantastic.

48:00.94

Eva Daniel 

So they're very you know they're very fun. It's my joke. My joke a lot of my life has been. You know some kids dream about growing up, you know, growing up running off and joining the circus for those of us who grew up in the circus. We joke that we want to run off and join corporate America. So.

48:17.29

aggierobison

Ah, that's you've done the gypsy life and it's not for you right? I understand that.

48:18.26

Eva Daniel 

Yeah, although you know you know like this, people grow up in carnivals. They're carnies. But if you grew up going to Renaissance I you're a Rennie so I was a Rennie as a kid so there you go? yeah.

48:29.59

aggierobison

I've never heard Rennie I've just always said gypsy. So okay, we're any there you go.

48:32.73

Eva Daniel 

Next time next time Next time you go to a Renaissance vessel and you look at all these little kids and toss you you think Wow This is their life. This is the life their parents chose for them.

48:38.76

aggierobison

Ah, okay, yeah, you get a falcon for your fourth birthday right? And yeah, you learn to teach it. Cool question number 7 what is 1 book that you think everyone should read?

48:42.89

Eva Daniel 

No.

48:49.59

Eva Daniel 

Speak like Churchill Stand like Lincoln by James Humes I love this book on public speaking it is one of my favorite books I reference it all of the time professionally. James Humes the author he was a presidential speechwriter for 7 different presidents and what I love about the book is that it's full of just very practical tactical easily applicable things not only to speaking although the the book is 21 secrets of the greatest speakers. But is also a lot of those principles are going to be true. No matter what kind of content you're creating I also just love the book because a lot of books on public speaking you know they di really deep into like Ted talks or like this very very deep in the depth and I feel like what most people need to improve. They're speaking are just little tiny tweaks and so. Love that book have you read it yet I know I recommend it. It's you okay and I don't know you know I always give the caveat I've never listened to the audio of it I'm a you know I paper book you know a book in my hand reader. Um, but I know there's an audio version of it as well.

49:42.42

aggierobison

I Have not. I think you recommended it to me. Yeah I ah.

49:54.44

aggierobison

Yeah, well see I think that's my pro I am I can't I literally cannot read books anymore and ah in ah in my hand. In fact I think that's the problem is I bought that book because I thought oh I'm going to want to make notes in the margins and it's sitting on my Nightstand and.

49:57.37

Eva Daniel 

For you because I know you are an audio book.

50:12.10

aggierobison

I need to get the audio book and you know what's interesting talking. Um talk about audiobooks I just recently got introduced to libby. Are you familiar with this? Yeah I just finished my third free audio book from the library and I'm in college station. It's a pretty small. Um.

50:12.33

Eva Daniel 

Yeah.

50:18.25

Eva Daniel 

Yes, it's amazing. Isn't it I mean the library free books from the library. What did you finish.

50:31.10

aggierobison

Pretty small library selection I may see if I can get in on my dad's Harris County Library they have more um I just finished John Grisham The Reckoning which is I love John Grisham and he was really good. Um I'm reading John Hart The Unwilling right now and I did I read? Um, oh gosh. Um.

50:37.72

Eva Daniel 

Boom.

50:49.80

aggierobison

Ah, The Richest Man in Babylon not too like two weeks ago yeah I had never read it before I was really really kind of I was surprised.

50:51.20

Eva Daniel 

Oh That's a good one? Yeah I Yeah say it's the great one I am I have found for myself on Audiobooks I prefer Novels for Audiobooks because Nonfiction Books I Just find what you were saying the referencing back I find myself I want to underline or go back or relook at the data or. Whatever it is whereas novels are incredible for audiobooks because it just brings the stories to life.

51:13.93

aggierobison

I used to whenever I worked at the a and m foundation I was on the road all the time and so I would go to the library and I would get CDs and I would usually get like 3 because I never knew the selection was pretty small and I never knew which one I was going to like and so I'd like start it and. Got halfway through the first disc and I was like a rare loser then I would toss it and I had another one for my trip and so I read some pretty interesting. Um novels and and nonfiction as well. So anyways, well.

51:41.23

Eva Daniel 

Since you're in middle. Oh I was just say since you're into Olivia have you gotten downloaded any books for your kids because my kids have gotten really into audiobooks.

51:49.53

aggierobison

So um, ah so yeah, so my 13 year old has listened to ah probably maybe 3 or 4 of the Harry Potters through my audible because I've had audible subscription for I don't know seven years eight years and so I um I upped my subscription a couple years ago and I ended up like not I got on this podcast kick and so I had like all these credits and so she she got a bunch of Harry Potters and then some other she's roll into like these kind of fantasy kind of like Harry Potter type of books and so she's read a couple of them on audible. But it's tricky because I listen at 1.7 speed and nobody else in my family can do that and so and so that if she's listening on my account then and I switch over my book then I'm like it's one speed. It's oh my gosh. This guy is tall gigs. So slow. But yeah I can do.

52:44.10

aggierobison

Well Eva I certainly do appreciate you taking the time to join me for this call and if people want to get a hold of you or or learn more where can they go.

52:51.86

Eva Daniel 

So the best place right now is linkedin. Hopefully by the time this airs I'll have a website up but currently, it's Linkedin the speak shop.

53:00.33

aggierobison

Great and the name of your business is awesome, good and final plug for the Petrus conference RAISE23 June 19 through 21 2023 and Louisville Kentucky um go to petrusdevepment.com/raise23 to learn more or to sign up Eva. It's been a pleasure. I certainly do appreciate you taking the time and to all you listening thanks for joining us today. Hopefully you got something that is that' be helpful to you in your work in your life and we'll see you next time. God bless.